Should the Gentoo secret lists be world-readable?

clumsyninja · n00b Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 61 Location: North Texas

i hate it when mommy and daddy fight

seriously though, i can see both sides of the issue here. open and free is good, and is the basis upon which gentoo (and gnu/linux in general) has become as successful as it has. however, as one of the posters commented, private converations will still occur via irc, email, phone, carrier pigeon, etc...

how to solve it?
perhaps release the core list after a period of time, giving everyone a chance to see the 'nuts and bolt' in the creation process of their favorite distro.

personally, i am too busy to get into the daily chase of information, but perhaps it would make for an interesting read on a lazy afternoon...

just a thought...
_________________
katana root # cat /proc/sys/kernel/osrelease
2.4.20-gentoo-r7

nerdbert · l33t Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 981 Location: Berlin

Ok, this discussion goes on and on, but I still don't see a reason to make the list public. It's possible that I need more Zen in my life, but I don't see the point why this list should be made public (while the devs move on to a 'secret' place). What do you expect to be revealed by this?

ThreeFarthingStone · n00b Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 40 Location: USA

nadamsieee · Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Barrier to Entry

ebrostig · Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Barrier to Entry

Genone · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:32 am Post subject:

I agree that -core should be private in general, but I'd like to see a public archive with older posts (say 1 or 2 months old) as there are sometimes discussions mentioned on -dev or bugs.g.o. that might be interesting (due to policy they should have been on -dev I guess). That approach would respect most concerns:
- users can't write to -core
- sensitive information is not revealed instantly but only after it is no longer sensitive
- no flaming threads about current discussions on -core
- users can see what has been discussed on -core

Of course there might still be reasons against this.

As long as -core is not readable by users some will complain as they think there is something interesting going on there (because it is "secret") and you can't proove them the opposite.

pYrania · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:14 pm Post subject:

This is total bs. Devs need a place to share and discuss their ideas without having to deal with hundreds of people who give their personal non interesting position to a topic that might be rundant at all.

all open source projects i worked with had some kind of private area to discuss things the publicity hasn't to know about.
_________________
Markus Nigbur

aja · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:13 pm Post subject:

I'm amazed at the ire this issue seems to provoke. First of all, -core isn't "secret", it's "private". Devs are permitted to (and often do) share the information there more widely. But -core gives them a place to communicate and share ideas without having to package it for public consumption or worry about public reaction to ideas that are only tentative.

I have worked on lots of software projects, and trust me on this, if a private forum for communication is not provided, it will evolve, because teams need privacy to do their job efficiently. If we make -core world-readable, then much of those conversations will move to PMs, private channels, etc. That isn't a cabal, that's human nature. No-one wants to work out their thoughts and uncertainties on a stage.

And "open" doesn't mean "public". "Open" means that the results, decsions, and rationales are provided to the public WHEN THEY ARE COMPLETE. Want to be part of the process? That's easy - start fixing things on bugzilla, make some intelligent suggestions, and you will be asked to join. Welcome to the meritocracy.

BradB · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:35 pm Post subject:

scott_ell · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:48 am Post subject:

bradcarter · n00b Joined: 12 Nov 2002 Posts: 53

honestly, I say let it remain closed. If I have to wait longer to get an ebuild for a KDE upgrade (for example) so people can have thier transperency I think that is counter productive.

If they are being honest as to what is on that list, and I have no reason to doubt it, they are actually giving transparency to the DEVELOPMENT of gentoo. To say developers cannot have interaction without the observation of the world is absurd in my opinion. Why should they loose thier freedom because they are doing something for you.

If a developer wants to talk over an idea before proposing it to the world what does it really hurt? I am pretty sure all of us have done something simular. To me a process like this is still good:

-developer A gets an new idea that he is not sure of mentions it on -core.
-developer B thinks it might work work with X tweek, discussion then gets moved to -dev

I dont think -core should ever really get opened even after a timelock, as what if developers are discussing their personal lives amoungst the other developers who have become their friends. They may have said things that may not want to be publicly known. I for one would like the devlopers to be a nice tight knit community where it is a nice free happy working envinronment

aja · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:37 am Post subject:

ranjit · n00b Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 26 Location: London, UK