Should the Gentoo trustees accept Daniel Robbins offer?

Voltago · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject:

The discussion has reached mainstream media. The German IT news site Heise.de reports, complete with link to this poll:
http://www.heise.de/open/news/meldung/101696
Expect a bunch of other news stories to follow.

Nerdanel · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject:

The current leadership has had nothing but opportunities for the past several years. For whatever reason they were not up to the task. They could have turned Gentoo around but instead they let it drift a slow course towards ruin and decay. Would they really have better ideas now than last month (and the ability to decide upon one and implement it)?

bmichaelsen

Naib

brot · Guru Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Posts: 322

Daniel Robbins more or less took gentoo where it is now. The potential gentoo has is incredible, imo.
(the worst thing is the website. There were great drafts for a new homepage, but somehow the redesign got hosed)

Decibels · Veteran Joined: 16 Aug 2002 Posts: 1623 Location: U.S.A.

I agree with some of the others that a pure democracy just doesn't work and progress becomes stalled. It also brings more conflict with it. So I am all for some kindof head man/woman, be it Daniel or someone else. But face it, the trustee's didn't do their job and progress became stalled, so Daniel can take over if he wants anyway. Maybe the fact that he hasn't just done that should count for something among the people that think he wants to be a dictator. Especially when you have part timers as Dev's, trustees, councils,.... it can take forever to get decisions made. Most of these people have regular jobs, college,... and only do this part time. I am curious what Daniel means by:

AllenJB · Veteran Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1285

MoonWalker · Guru Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 510

rowdog · n00b Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Mexico

One fact this issue makes crystal clear is that trustees need to be fired.

http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/ clearly states that the first task of the Foundation is to protect the Gentoo intellectual property. They have obviously failed at their first task since they've put the Gentoo IP in danger by failing to do the minimum required. I would also point out that it takes 3 of 5 votes for the Foundation to pass anything. So, there IS NO FOUNDATION AT THIS TIME, legally, or practically, since they can't meet the required quorum.

This situation needs to be resolved ASAP. As far as I can see, we have two choices: we can accept the offer or we can drag our feet and debate the specifics while Gentoo fades away.

One legal question I have is, since the foundation has ceased to exist, can anyone *other* than drobbins even bring it back to life? He has trademarks and such in his name and he was the last President of record but I would imagine that the "two people formerly known as The Foundation" has some signed documents and such.

Disclaimer: I'm one of those programmers who decided against becoming a dev because of the politics of Gentoo.

valkyrite · Apprentice Joined: 19 Sep 2002 Posts: 241

Well,

I am in favor of DR taking over the reins of Gentoo again. My support is more emotional than rational.

I do not know if the trustees and DR are talking to each other. But, if the trustees are unwilling to say YES, maybe they can reach a common ground with DR. IMHO, it would be better if DR is on-board with the other trustees and they try to work together. Or, maybe its just a wishful thinking on my part.

I am still optimistic.

jesnow · l33t Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 857

Volunteer trustees were entrusted with too much. Ownership of the assets, trademarks, etc, should not be in the hands of an individual, but an individual IS needed for leadership. Expecting a council to provide vision is folly. We need a CEO. Is drobbins, for all his contributions, the right person? Who knows, but until we make a new structure for this person to inhabit, it's all wind. I don't think this ultimatum is productive, though it has spurred a debate that needed spurring.

Jon.

AllenJB · Veteran Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1285

MoonWalker · Guru Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 510

AllenJB · Veteran Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1285

StifflerStealth · Retired Dev Joined: 03 Jul 2002 Posts: 968

teknomage1 · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject:

I used to really enjoy using gentoo and I was an active forum member but it seems like it's been going down hill since about a year after Daniel resigned. I would welcome the return of his leadership. I hope the overwhelmingly positive vote in the poll will help sway the current trustees but I feel like human ego may get in the way.

moesasji · Apprentice Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 263

What really amazes me when reading through Daniels blog is that this issue has been known for more then half a year and nothing seems to have been done. See the quote from his blog-post on the 23th of July

rlarkin · n00b Joined: 17 Aug 2007 Posts: 18

This comment was prompted by a post from Aniruddha, but isn't really a direct response.

Read through the whole thread, some interesting posts, but what really stands out is where the opinions separate. It seems devs don't want drobbins back, but users do. Why?

Someone might take the comments at face value and leave it at that, but I cannot. Ultimately this is about power and control. A lot of devs do what they want when they want, and see the return of drobbins as a threat to that autonomy. That's what I get from the "rational" reasons for not wanting to accept the offer (by the way there are a lot of rational comments pointing out the obvious - the trustees dropped the ball, end of story).

In my present occupation I have almost total autonomy. I come and go as I please, prioritize my own tasks, spend "spare" time on projects of my own choosing. If corporate called me and said "We're sending up a new manager that you'll be reporting to daily" I would fight that. I would fight it with completely rational and logical arguments and all of my arguments would be based on relevant fact, but no matter how long my list of facts, they wouldn't make me right from all perspectives.

I'm sure there are many people in this community that have their own space carved out and don't want anyone mucking with that space. But no matter how technical the arguments against the change, the prime motivator (IMNSHO) is in fact emotion.

The way I see it, there are some people with an @gentoo.org email address who don't want to be told how to spend time they volunteered. Understandable of course, but from the largest perspective possible (users>devs/trustees/forum-admins/*) maybe, possibly, those people should be told what to do. The best illustration of this is the poll results in this thread.

Most of the above is supposition since drobbins hasn't yet promised to radically overhaul what is to be a dev at gentoo. What he has promised is to fix the legal problems, and that needs to be done. I don't see anyone else stepping up to do this. I say bring him back, get the legal problems fixed, and let the rest of the chips fall where they may. One of those chips might result in the [package] dev leaving because he can't tolerate some new direction dictated by Daniel. So? As a dev you might (rightly) see your opinion as heavier than mine because of your time spent and contributions made vs me as a user. And that means gentoo doesn't always make choices I agree with. For one, I'd like to see all the time spent on split KDE ebuilds spent on something else, but from where I stand I don't have the needed perspective to know that I'm right.

But there is a greater perspective than that of the devs and that is the users as a whole. I have a question, when you decided to volunteer your time to gentoo, did you do it to scratch a personal itch, to get a bullet on your resume, or was it a selfless commitment to the community? Your answer illustrates your perspective, and your perspective qualifies your opinion on this matter more than any list of facts.

bmichaelsen · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject:

MoonWalker · Guru Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 510

Naib

Kasumi_Ninja · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject:

jstead1 · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject:

I say give drobbins the control he wants. It may completely fail, but it is clear that gentoo is not cutting it right now. Something has to change.
We can't update the homepage, we can't file routine paperwork. The only reason the distro is still going is because the devs are putting out e-builds. But sooner or later, without some kind of leadership, this distro is going to fracture. My main concern is that it may be too late for anyone to turn it around. Not to say that gentoo will die tomorrow, or next year, but that it will become marginalized, lose good developers and become a second rate piece of work.
_________________
jim

AllenJB · Veteran Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1285

Kasumi_Ninja · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: