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| How often do you bootstrap? |
| Never |
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47% |
[ 41 ] |
| Once |
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34% |
[ 30 ] |
| Every 3 Months |
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3% |
[ 3 ] |
| Every 6 Months |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Every Year |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
| New Version in Toolchain |
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2% |
[ 2 ] |
| New Major Version in Toolchain |
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10% |
[ 9 ] |
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| Total Votes : 87 |
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| Author |
Message |
SLBMEH
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: How often do you bootstrap? |
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I usually bootstrap any time there is a new major version on a package in the toolchain. Does anyone else do this?
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54577
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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SLBMEH,
Just once at install time, since I still use stage 1
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Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 252
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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With a major version change.
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Maedhros
Bodhisattva
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 5511
Location: Durham, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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The last time I used bootstrap.sh was sometime in 2004. I've only installed Gentoo once since then, and I used a stage 3 instead. I've never used it on an installed system either.
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SLBMEH
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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My first install was a stage 1, I had nothing but problems using stage 3. I've used stage 1 ever since. Do you think bootstrapping more often is more beneficial?
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8086
n00b
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I used to perform stage1s when they were still officially supported; now I perform stage 3 installs and just `emerge -e system && emerge -e world` at some point after the first boot. |
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Veldrin
Veteran
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1945
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Really bootstrap (as in bootstrap.sh), I did ~3 times...
My first installed, which blew... (stage1 install)
My second installed, 1 week after the first (stage1 install)
and some when in summer 2004, when I got a new notebook (another stage1 install)
every since, I used stage3...
rebuilding my toolchain may happen after a "minor" glibc upgrade (i.e 2.6 to 2.7)- or when I am in the mood. |
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sLumpia
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 120
Location: troller land
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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once, my latest (and i hope my last) Gentoo install on this pc  |
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Ian
l33t
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 834
Location: Somerville, MA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Whenever I hopelessly break my computer and decide it's easier to reinstall Gentoo than to figure how the hell I broke it and then fix it.
Also known as about once a year...  |
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SLBMEH
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian wrote: | Whenever I hopelessly break my computer and decide it's easier to reinstall Gentoo than to figure how the hell I broke it and then fix it.
Also known as about once a year... |
I tend to do that if it's been a long time since the last major update in the toolchain. 
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Simba7
l33t
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 706
Location: Billings, MT, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | Just once at install time, since I still use stage 1 |
'bout time I find someone that still does a Stage1. I seem to get a lecture everytime I mention it.
I do Stage1's on all my systems, even on my P-MMX 200's and my PII-350 through 450's.. Just takes awhile.. |
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warrens
Apprentice
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 239
Location: Don't Tread On Me!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Simba7 wrote: | | NeddySeagoon wrote: | | Just once at install time, since I still use stage 1 |
'bout time I find someone that still does a Stage1. I seem to get a lecture everytime I mention it.
I do Stage1's on all my systems, even on my P-MMX 200's and my PII-350 through 450's.. Just takes awhile.. |
I also use Stage 1, but I use my own script based on LFS instead of bootstrap.sh. Since Stage 3 installation is the only officially supported method though all of a Stage 1 users catch a lot of flac, but what I find funny is that I never had any problems with things such as expat, while those with Stage 3 ran into problems.
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hopspitfire
n00b
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 9
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: |
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I have my own script based on Fiordland's script and a guide @ www.xerq.net
I'll bootstrap every 3-6 months to keep in practice, even on random, deprecated machines at work when I have nothing better to do.
I'm a UNIX admin so I gotta keep up with this stuff. |
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djdunn
l33t
Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 812
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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theres no real need to bootstrap GCC updates are few and far between, as you upgrade GCC and such eventually with enough time all your programs will be eventually upgraded with the new GCC, unless you really really need one of those new features its not really necessary at all
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bbee
n00b
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see why you would ever need to bootstrap more than once (and even then only if you're doing a stage 1 install).
| Code: | $ genlop -l | head -n 3
* sys-apps/portage
Thu Apr 3 03:36:19 2003 >>> sys-apps/portage-2.0.47-r10 |
This is one of the reasons I use gentoo, zero reinstalls. I've uprgaded the MB 2 times, and I did an in-place arch change (to move to x86_64) two years ago. Even while doing the arch change I didn't run bootstrap.sh, just emerge -e world after grabbing a binary toolchain from somewhere (two reboots total). My PVR/mythtv box is from March '04, same story (except it's still on i686). |
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mikegpitt
Advocate
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 3224
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Do you mean actually bootstrapping the system, or just recompiling the toolchain, then all other packages? I put down never since I always start from a stage3. I have however recompiled my toolchain and entire system a handful of times over the years.
This actually brings up a point I was curious about recently. If I upgrade a major toolchain component (gcc, glibc, etc...) am I always required to recompile my entire system? I'm asking because I usually don't do this (except with really big changes). I never really noticed any problems, but I'm wondering if there are hidden consequences. |
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jstead1
Guru
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 427
Location: Oswego, NY where the snow is deep
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| mikegpitt wrote: | Do you mean actually bootstrapping the system, or just recompiling the toolchain, then all other packages? I put down never since I always start from a stage3. I have however recompiled my toolchain and entire system a handful of times over the years.
This actually brings up a point I was curious about recently. If I upgrade a major toolchain component (gcc, glibc, etc...) am I always required to recompile my entire system? I'm asking because I usually don't do this (except with really big changes). I never really noticed any problems, but I'm wondering if there are hidden consequences. |
Sometimes there are consequences, as in some program won't work, so if it is hidden from you, it really isn't a consequence.
Usually in the upgrade guides, they tell you, you can do such and such, and you should be alright, or you can emerge -e world and you will definitely be alright.
I usually follow the minimum, considering that if I do have a problem, I can always do the emerge -e world.
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SLBMEH
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| mikegpitt wrote: | Do you mean actually bootstrapping the system, or just recompiling the toolchain, then all other packages? I put down never since I always start from a stage3. I have however recompiled my toolchain and entire system a handful of times over the years.
This actually brings up a point I was curious about recently. If I upgrade a major toolchain component (gcc, glibc, etc...) am I always required to recompile my entire system? I'm asking because I usually don't do this (except with really big changes). I never really noticed any problems, but I'm wondering if there are hidden consequences. |
As in the bootstrap.sh that was done in the now unsupported stage1 install. I now use two custom scripts since it's unsupported either way. The first does a bootstrap builds some of my key applications, then rebuilds all of my servers one by one prompting for configuration changes which allows me to make sure it's running properly before going to the next step. This is used on my development environment. And the second does the same but instead of doing the last part individually it rsyncs my virtual configurations from the development environment, as they have now been updated and tested. This one is used on my production servers.
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kicker69101
n00b
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: |
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I haven't touch bootstrap.sh for years. Oh man that brings back the days. The booze, the drugs, and no women! jk 
As per rebuilding my whole system (ie emerge -e system && emerge -e world), I do that after glibc or gcc get updated. Other then that I just use revdep-rebuild.
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ryker
Guru
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 412
Location: Portage, IN
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't run bootstrap since my last stage1 install a few years ago. What would be the advantage of running bootstrap anyway? I'm not sure I understand what bootstrapping really does.
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SLBMEH
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ryker wrote: | | I haven't run bootstrap since my last stage1 install a few years ago. What would be the advantage of running bootstrap anyway? I'm not sure I understand what bootstrapping really does. |
It builds your toolchain. I use it to eliminate the need to emerge -e system twice or emerge -e system && emerge -e world. I update my system then I bootstrap then rebuild world. It saves a little bit of time.
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yoshi314
l33t
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 850
Location: PL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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i bootstrapped 15 times so far.
12 failures when learning gentoo. and then 3 times, mostly when i messed up my system, or when i was changing a pc.
nowadays there are more tools to keep it tidy so i guess i will boostrap again when i decide to switch to 64bit system.
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| SLBMEH wrote: | | ryker wrote: | | I haven't run bootstrap since my last stage1 install a few years ago. What would be the advantage of running bootstrap anyway? I'm not sure I understand what bootstrapping really does. |
It builds your toolchain. I use it to eliminate the need to emerge -e system twice or emerge -e system && emerge -e world. I update my system then I bootstrap then rebuild world. It saves a little bit of time. |
Gcc bootstraps itself when it is built unless you explicitly pass it the --disable-bootstrap parameter (which the ebuild does not). Look the beginning of Section 0.1 of the official docs for gnu gcc: http://gcc.gnu.org/install/build.html
More concretely, gcc uses a 3-stage fashion bootstrap mechanism. It is built once with the system compiler, then it rebuilds itself with itself. And finally, it builds itself with the itself that was built by itself (understood?  ). Also, know that, the output of gcc (the object code it will create) is completely independent of any external factor. It just depends on the version of gcc and the flags you pass to it. So, really, gcc-4.1 will always output the same object code for the same source code, regardless the compiler you used to compile it.
Gcc autorecompiles itself with itself and again, and that's not a gentoo thing, but a gcc thing that is made by design.
Then, you build glibc, and that's all and your toolchain is up to date. If you are really worried about that, you can recompile the whole world once with the new glibc and compiler, but I find it kind of useless to do so, unless needed for some reason (for example, ABIs breaking due to glibc or libstdc++-v3 doing funky things as it always does).
The time you are investing on this stuff is much more than any performance gain that you think you are going to get by recompiling your world twice. And you don't even need to use bootstrap.sh (though, to tell the truth, I only used that script once from stage1, and don't remember how much stuff does it build). Anyway, if you think that it is worth the trouble, no one can stop you from doing so.
There is an infinite count of threads like this trying to re-discover America, when the truth is really simple: don't waste your time. Google a bit and search the forums and you will find plenty of them, just one as a sample:
http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-user%40lists.gentoo.org/msg36367.html |
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ryker
Guru
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 412
Location: Portage, IN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I was curious what bootstrap.sh actually builds. bootstrap.sh has a --pretend optoin, which shows what it will do. Here's the output on my x86_64 system for anyone else who is curious.
| Code: |
[[ (1/3) Configuring environment ]]
* GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo"
* PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
* DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
* PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
* PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
* CFLAGS="-march=nocona -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -mfpmath=sse -pipe"
* CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
* CXXFLAGS="-march=nocona -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -mfpmath=sse -pipe"
* MAKEOPTS="-j5"
* ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
* FEATURES="buildpkg ccache distlocks fixpackages metadata-transfer parallel-fetch sandbox sfperms strict unmerge-orphans userfetch"
* STAGE1_USE="nptl nptlonly unicode"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[[ (2/3) Updating portage ]]
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2 [1.2.17]
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/portage-2.1.3.19 [2.1.3.9] USE="build*"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[[ (3/3) Emerging packages ]]
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libxml2-2.6.30-r1 USE="-debug -doc -ipv6 -python -readline -test"
[ebuild U ] sys-kernel/linux-headers-2.6.23-r2 [2.6.21]
[ebuild R ] sys-apps/texinfo-4.8-r5
[ebuild U ] sys-devel/binutils-2.18-r1 [2.17-r1]
[ebuild R ] sys-devel/gcc-4.1.2 USE="bootstrap* -fortran* -mudflap*"
[ebuild U ] sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 [2.5-r4] USE="-gd% -vanilla%"
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.10-r5 [1.12.9-r2] USE="bootstrap*"
[ebuild R ] sys-libs/zlib-1.2.3-r1
[ebuild U ] sys-devel/gettext-0.17 [0.16.1-r1] USE="-acl% -openmp%"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
So it looks like it does build things a little different. Some of the use flags, cflags and environment variables are changed for bootstrapping. I assume these are changed to ensure a sane build process?
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54577
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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ryker,
Partly and partly to break circular dependancies and when you are bootstrapping, you don't want to suck in anything you don't need.
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