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EmherYok
n00b
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Killer system |
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Time for a new computer!
So, I thought I'd stop by the forums of my favorite distro for some advice. Here's my thoughts so far:
1) I'm on a budget (undecided for now, but I'm thinking about $1200 or less, including monitor)
2) I want a killer system that will keep up for a relatively long time
3) Oh, it has to run Gentoo! 
So, here's where I need advice:
1) Are 8-core machines worthwhile?
Of course, that'll help with emerge -1e world, but should my money go to something else?
2) SSD drive?
I've seen some discussion here, mostly applying to laptops. It seems like mounting it as / but then mounting /home, /var, /tmp, and /usr/portage (and maybe others) to a traditional drive may be helpful (both for the additional space and for the fast access times). SSD drives are incredibly expensive still ... how big would it have to be in this scheme? Would the speed boost even be that significant for the price (considering my budget)?
3) Motherboard/video recommendations?
It's been a while since I've built a desktop ... I haven't kept up lately. |
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HeissFuss
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1) Are 8-core machines worthwhile? |
Probably not unless you're doing something that can really take advantage of so many cores (video editing, compiling, or running a lot of services.) It's more of an advantage in a server environment.
| Quote: | 2) SSD drive?
I've seen some discussion here, mostly applying to laptops. It seems like mounting it as / but then mounting /home, /var, /tmp, and /usr/portage (and maybe others) to a traditional drive may be helpful (both for the additional space and for the fast access times). SSD drives are incredibly expensive still ... how big would it have to be in this scheme? Would the speed boost even be that significant for the price (considering my budget)? |
The main advantages of SSDs is very low access times (<1 ms) and much higher IOPS (I/Os per second.) ) Disregarding write wear (on the newer SSDs this doesn't seem like a problem with normal use for the drive's lifespan) the ideal places to use this is in locations with a lot of read IOPS or something you want to load/access quickly. Unless you get an mtron, don't use it anywhere that's written frequently, not just for write wear but also because these drives perform worse than traditional HDDs for most write ops. Basically, unless you want the lower power usage or bragging rights, SSD isn't worth the cost (at current costs) for desktop use. They'll see best performance in a server environment where IOPS/access latency is key (in fact EMC is now offering SSD SANs.)
| Quote: | | 3) Motherboard/video recommendations? |
It really depends on what you'll be using it for. Unless you're a linux gamer or use a lot of opengl intensive apps, the graphics card doesn't really matter. For the mobo, the main options at this point are support for the new 45nm intel chips/bus speeds and whether or not to go with DDR3 (doesn't seem like it's cost effective at this point considering how cheap DDR2 is right now.) |
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OmSai
l33t
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 605
Location: Manchester, CT, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Killer system |
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| EmherYok wrote: | 1) I'm on a budget (undecided for now, but I'm thinking about $1200 or less, including monitor)
2) I want a killer system that will keep up for a relatively long time
3) Oh, it has to run Gentoo! |
What will you be using your system for?
Server, gaming, graphics, 3D, scientific, media center etc...?
Only by knowing that one can make recommendations on hardware.
_________________
Gentoo is the stick-shift of Linux.
You work it manually, it has somewhat better performance, but it's really for the fun of it. |
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Carnildo
Guru
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 595
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Killer system |
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| EmherYok wrote: | Time for a new computer!
So, I thought I'd stop by the forums of my favorite distro for some advice. Here's my thoughts so far:
1) I'm on a budget (undecided for now, but I'm thinking about $1200 or less, including monitor)
2) I want a killer system that will keep up for a relatively long time
3) Oh, it has to run Gentoo!
So, here's where I need advice:
1) Are 8-core machines worthwhile?
Of course, that'll help with emerge -1e world, but should my money go to something else?
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For the most part, no, and unless you want to spend your entire budget on the CPU, you won't be able to afford it.
| Quote: | 2) SSD drive?
I've seen some discussion here, mostly applying to laptops. It seems like mounting it as / but then mounting /home, /var, /tmp, and /usr/portage (and maybe others) to a traditional drive may be helpful (both for the additional space and for the fast access times). SSD drives are incredibly expensive still ... how big would it have to be in this scheme? Would the speed boost even be that significant for the price (considering my budget)? |
I wouldn't want to install a desktop system on anything less than 8 GB, and at current prices, that's a significant part of your budget.
| Quote: | 3) Motherboard/video recommendations?
It's been a while since I've built a desktop ... I haven't kept up lately. |
How much video do you need? How important is sound? How important is keeping the whole thing quiet?
Two suggested systems:
Light gaming (no 3D games newer than four years or so):
Monitor: $200
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600: $250
Intel G35 mainboard (onboard graphics): $150
4GB RAM: $100
500GB 7200RPM hard drive: $100
DVD-RW drive: $25
Case with 500W power supply: $150
The Q6600 overclocks extremely well: you can upgrade this system in the future either by adding an aftermarket cooler and overclocking, or by replacing the CPU with a 45nm-based one.
Heavy gaming (current 3D games):
Monitor: $250
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400: $250
Intel P35 mainboard: $100
4GB RAM: $100
NVidia graphics card: $200
500GB 7200RPM hard drive: $100
DVD-RW drive: $25
Case with 650W power supply: $175
The E8400 is faster than the Q6600, but has only two cores. This won't be a problem for games, but means that compiling will be slower.
Or, if you really want 8 cores:
Monitor: $200
2x quad-core Xeon: $600
Dual-socket mainboard: $300
4GB RAM: $150
500GB hard drive: $100
DVD-RW: $25
Case with 500W server power supply: $150
You're only over budget by about $300. |
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Monkeh
Veteran
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 1656
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| 650W PSU for a gaming box? Overkill. A 500W would suit it (as long as you don't pile the HDDs on, if you do you'll need some way to stagger spinup). |
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HeissFuss
Guru
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Considering the power draw for current mid-high end graphics cards and depending on the 12v rail count, 650W is not unreasonable for a single card system. |
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Monkeh
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Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 1656
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| HeissFuss wrote: | | Considering the power draw for current mid-high end graphics cards and depending on the 12v rail count, 650W is not unreasonable for a single card system. |
I've planned a vastly superior machine to the one he specced out, and I'll be buying a 500W PSU for it. If you get a good PSU, you don't need 650W. And you should always get a good PSU. |
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Carnildo
Guru
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 595
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkeh wrote: | | 650W PSU for a gaming box? Overkill. A 500W would suit it (as long as you don't pile the HDDs on, if you do you'll need some way to stagger spinup). |
Nobody makes high-quality low-wattage power supplies any more. My current system could probably work with a 250W power supply, but I've got a 520W one because that's the smallest one I could find with modular cable support from a reputable brand. |
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Monkeh
Veteran
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 1656
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Carnildo wrote: | | Monkeh wrote: | | 650W PSU for a gaming box? Overkill. A 500W would suit it (as long as you don't pile the HDDs on, if you do you'll need some way to stagger spinup). |
Nobody makes high-quality low-wattage power supplies any more. My current system could probably work with a 250W power supply, but I've got a 520W one because that's the smallest one I could find with modular cable support from a reputable brand. |
Yes, but recommending a 650W when a 500W is suitable is silly. |
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OmSai
l33t
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 605
Location: Manchester, CT, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| Carnildo wrote: | | Nobody makes high-quality low-wattage power supplies any more. |
Nope, Enermax has been working brilliantly for me for the last 5 months.
350W, good voltage stability, and an efficiency of >80%
An 8600GT will work just fine on a 350W
_________________
Gentoo is the stick-shift of Linux.
You work it manually, it has somewhat better performance, but it's really for the fun of it. |
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d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I booted a brand new Dell monster laptop at work, this thing was sold 3500$ canadien and it has a SSD harddisk. I used the Gentoo minimal CD 2007.0 and everything went fine except the nvidia video card and also the IPW4965 wifi card.
But this thing was booting and it has a ICH9 chipset.
I ran a hdparm -Tt /dev/sda, and it ran 50 meg for the writting and the read speed was in fact faster than a standard hdd.
I had a SystemRescueCD with me in case that the 2007.0 minimal CD would not boot. |
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baeksu
l33t
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 609
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Instead of a SSD, wouldn't it be cheaper and faster just to get a couple/three SATA disks, and raid them? Raid1 would probably give you the same read/write speeds as an SSD, and you would also have some redundancy.
Get a couple of cheap, lower capacity disks for a raid of /usr partition, and then a big one for the data you don't need to access every ten minutes.
Also, if the OP wants longevity, wouldn't it make more sense to get a mid-priced CPU now, and upgrade it after a couple of years to another mid-priced one?
_________________
Gnome:
1. A legendary being.
2. A never ending quest to make unix friendly to people who don't want unix and excruciating for those that do. |
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Monkeh
Veteran
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 1656
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| d2_racing wrote: | | But this thing was booting and it has a ICH9 chipset. |
Desktop chipset in a laptop? This is why high performance laptops are bad ideas.. |
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