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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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 Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Cephalon wrote: | i try to resume a broken paludis and after an svn cleanup i take the next error please help me, i don't want to delete all the svn files i already download.
| Code: | * Fetching disabled since 1 hours has not passed since last update.
* Using existing repository copy at revision 804590.
* working copy: /usr/portage/distfiles/svn-src/KDE/kdebase/kdebase
* Exporting parts of working copy to /var/tmp/paludis/kde-base-ksplash-scm/work/ksplash
rsync: link_stat "/usr/portage/distfiles/svn-src/KDE/kdebase/kdebase/workspace/*" failed: No such file or directory (2)
rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(980) [sender=2.6.9]
!!! ERROR in kde-base/ksplash-scm:
!!! In kde4svn-meta_src_extract at line 3415
!!! subversion: can't export toplevel files to '/var/tmp/paludis/kde-base-ksplash-scm/work/ksplash'.
!!! Call stack:
!!! * kde4svn-meta_src_extract (/var/tmp/paludis/kde-base-ksplash-scm/temp/loadsaveenv:3415)
!!! * kde4svn-meta_src_unpack (/var/tmp/paludis/kde-base-ksplash-scm/temp/loadsaveenv:3438)
!!! * src_unpack (/var/tmp/paludis/kde-base-ksplash-scm/temp/loadsaveenv:4248)
!!! * ebuild_f_unpack (/usr/libexec/paludis/0/src_unpack.bash:42)
!!! * ebuild_main (/usr/libexec/paludis/ebuild.bash:460)
!!! * main (/usr/libexec/paludis/ebuild.bash:479)
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Go to the svn dir and do "svn up" and after that "chown -R reduced_username:reduced_username ." where you replace reduced_username with the username you set in /etc/paludis/environment (standard is paludisbuild). |
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Cephalon
n00b
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: | svn up
A runtime/pics/oxygen/128x128/apps/k3b.png
svn: Failed to add file 'runtime/pics/oxygen/128x128/apps/preferences-desktop-icons.png': object of the same name already exists
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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Cephalon wrote: | | Code: | svn up
A runtime/pics/oxygen/128x128/apps/k3b.png
svn: Failed to add file 'runtime/pics/oxygen/128x128/apps/preferences-desktop-icons.png': object of the same name already exists
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Delete it. (... and take a baseball bat and beat the svn developers.) |
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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Just for the information. There have been sets added for KDE 3.5.x.
So if you like the sets more than metas (and of course if you're using Paludis, like everyone in this thread, I guess), you can use these sets instead of the meta ebuilds.
The sets are named kdebase-35x, kdemultimedia-35x, kde-35x etc.
There is a kde-mono-35x, too.
These sets work just like the -scm sets, except of course, that --dl-reinstall-scm is useless with those sets. 
If you find mistakes regarding this sets, please report.  |
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Kuhrscher
Guru
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 498
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| fldc2 wrote: | I can start one kde-session per user on a new boot, then it just hangs at splash as other mentioned. Looking at .xsession-errors there is a lot of problems connecting to dbus.
And also nepomukservices use 99% cpu when enabled
So i guess, same problems as you others, built yesterday.
edit: and today, no change |
Same here... |
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fldc2
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Motala, Sweden
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Kuhrscher wrote: | | fldc2 wrote: | I can start one kde-session per user on a new boot, then it just hangs at splash as other mentioned. Looking at .xsession-errors there is a lot of problems connecting to dbus.
And also nepomukservices use 99% cpu when enabled
So i guess, same problems as you others, built yesterday.
edit: and today, no change |
Same here... |
Seem to be some problem in kded4, kill -9 on the kded4 process when logged out fixes the problem, until it hangs again of course Any global shortcut seem to make it hang though. |
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wrc1944
Advocate
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 3435
Location: Gainesville, Florida
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gimpel
Advocate
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 2720
Location: Munich, Bavaria
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't really need to recompile anything upgrading from 4.4.0-rc1.
(did some funky for-do-done loop in /usr/portage/x11-libs, created an updated -headers.tar.bz2 and edited qt4-build.eclass a bit.)
Means all my Qt4 apps kept working w/o recompile.
I did recompile kde4.1 trunk though, but that is generally not in a usable fashion atm (plasma is crashy like hell).
SMplayer's trunk already uses qt-4.4 stuff for moving the playlist - absolutely fluidly resizes the player window..
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wrc1944
Advocate
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 3435
Location: Gainesville, Florida
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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gimpel wrote: | Quote: | I didn't really need to recompile anything upgrading from 4.4.0-rc1.
(did some funky for-do-done loop in /usr/portage/x11-libs, created an updated -headers.tar.bz2 and edited qt4-build.eclass a bit.) |
By "everything" I meant kde- guess I should have been more specific. So if we just update (re-install) qt-split all will be well ? I'm not on Gentoo & Paludis at the moment.
_________________
Main box- AsRock x370 Gaming K4
Ryzen 7 3700x, 3.6GHz, 16GB GSkill Flare DDR4 3200mhz
Samsung SATA 1000GB, Radeon HD R7 350 2GB DDR5
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ArneBab
Guru
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Graben-Neudorf, Germany
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Is Paludis a hard requirement, now?
Is it possible to use the overlay with pkgcore instead?
When will it be possible to use it with portage?
EDIT: From what I read in the mail, only the live ebuilds depend on Paludis.
Is it possible to get the normal meta-ebuilds of KDE 4.1 via portage?
_________________
Being unpolitical means being political without realizing it. - Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de )
pkgcore: So fast that it feels unreal - by doing only what is needed. |
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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ArneBab wrote: | | Is Paludis a hard requirement, now? |
For the overlay, yes.
| Quote: | | Is it possible to use the overlay with pkgcore instead? |
Not until they implement kdebuild-1
| Quote: | | When will it be possible to use it with portage? |
See pkgcore.
| Quote: | | EDIT: From what I read in the mail, only the live ebuilds depend on Paludis. |
Yes, kdebuilds don't go in the official tree. Everything going there (this includes kde-4.0.x and, when it will be released, kde-4.1.x) will be a normal ebuild.
| Quote: | | Is it possible to get the normal meta-ebuilds of KDE 4.1 via portage? |
We currently support no installation of KDE 4.1 via Portage. |
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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| wrc1944 wrote: | gimpel wrote: | Quote: | I didn't really need to recompile anything upgrading from 4.4.0-rc1.
(did some funky for-do-done loop in /usr/portage/x11-libs, created an updated -headers.tar.bz2 and edited qt4-build.eclass a bit.) |
By "everything" I meant kde- guess I should have been more specific. So if we just update (re-install) qt-split all will be well ? I'm not on Gentoo & Paludis at the moment. |
It currently looks like you won't have to recompile KDE for the Upgrade 4.4.0-rc1 -> 4.4.0.
I started first tests, but I wouldn't expect Qt-4.4.0 in the tree in the next few days. |
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Stefano Crocco
Apprentice
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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In the last days, I noticed quite a number of new bugs with kde. Given their number, I started wandering whether there may be a problem in my system, rather than in KDE, so I decided to ask here, before started posting bug reports. Has anybody noticed issues similar to these?
- kmail doesn't store custom shortcut (since a week or more) and konqueror started doing the same today
- konqueror keeps crashing on many web sites (this seems to be related to this commit to the kde svn, since I tried manually changing the source file and recompiling kdelibs and konqueror behaves correctly
- krunner crashes randomly
Some days ago, I reported that something strange was going on with my KDE4 system, since whenever I installed a kde package, the keyboard almost stopped working, with only the Alt+Ctrl+Backspace combination working. Nobody was able to give hints about what was happening. I made further experiments and can add the following facts:
- The problem is still there. Recompiling all of kde4 and qt4 didn't solve it
- the Alt+Ctrl+Fn shortcuts, which display the terminals from 1 to 9 also work. The keyboard works normally in the terminal.
- this happens if I install the package using paludis or manually with make/make install. In the latter case, it seems to happen during the installation phase
- whatever is happening doesn't affect only the keyboard. Sometimes, I've also experienced focus problems, when clicking the mouse on a window didn't give it focus. This happened in particular for non-kde applications. Besides, kde applications (launched from the K menu, since the keyboard doesn't work) take much more time than usual to start, and very often don't work correcty (for example, clicking on a menu seems to make them hang).
Given the above facts, and in particular the focus problem, I started to suspect a problem with the window manager. So, I replaced kwin with fluxbox, setting the KDEWM environment variable in .bashrc. Unfortunately, this didn't help. Actually, things got worse, since with fluxbox the focus problems become more serious (for example, clicking on the maximize, minimize or close buttons on the title bar had the effect of moving the window, instead of pushing the button). I also looked at /var/log/messages. /var/log/Xorg.0.log and ~/.xession-errors, but found nothing. Not knowing what else to do, I tried, without much hope, to reinstall gcc, but even that didn't help. If nobody has a better idea, I think I'll removed the /usr/kde/svn directory and reinstall all of kde svn.
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beso_1717
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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i still don't understand what goes wrong with xorg-git version. the problem is always the same: nepomuk, phonon and knotify cannot contact dbus daemon and then start crashing so that kdeinit4 issues a sigvterm signal and logouts. to me it almost seems like a priviledges issue.
ps. why do i need nepomuk and soprano if i removed the semantic-desktop. |
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ArneBab
Guru
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Graben-Neudorf, Germany
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Berniyh wrote: | | ArneBab wrote: | | Is Paludis a hard requirement, now? |
For the overlay, yes.
| Quote: | | EDIT: From what I read in the mail, only the live ebuilds depend on Paludis. |
Yes, kdebuilds don't go in the official tree. Everything going there (this includes kde-4.0.x and, when it will be released, kde-4.1.x) will be a normal ebuild. |
Then I'll be out of testing KDE 4.1 till it's available via portage.
Should I remove the kde overlay then?
Still, thanks for providing it.
_________________
Being unpolitical means being political without realizing it. - Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de )
pkgcore: So fast that it feels unreal - by doing only what is needed. |
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beso_1717
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ArneBab wrote: | | Berniyh wrote: | | ArneBab wrote: | | Is Paludis a hard requirement, now? |
For the overlay, yes.
| Quote: | | EDIT: From what I read in the mail, only the live ebuilds depend on Paludis. |
Yes, kdebuilds don't go in the official tree. Everything going there (this includes kde-4.0.x and, when it will be released, kde-4.1.x) will be a normal ebuild. |
Then I'll be out of testing KDE 4.1 till it's available via portage.
Should I remove the kde overlay then?
Still, thanks for providing it. |
you can just disable the installation from it by removing the package_unmask and keyword reffering to it. |
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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| beso_1717 wrote: | i still don't understand what goes wrong with xorg-git version. the problem is always the same: nepomuk, phonon and knotify cannot contact dbus daemon and then start crashing so that kdeinit4 issues a sigvterm signal and logouts. to me it almost seems like a priviledges issue.
ps. why do i need nepomuk and soprano if i removed the semantic-desktop. |
Depends on what you did and what you added to your world file.
If you unset the semantik-desktop use flag for everything that has it and recompile those packages, the dependencies should be gone.
After that, remove them and do a world update, if they get pulled in still, you either have a setname* set in your world file, the kdebuilds themselves or you forgot to disable it somewhere.
Regarding xorg-git. The xorg-server in the git version is highly unstable and there could be quite something wrong. Since xorg talks to hal/dbus, it could cause dbus to go wrong, I guess.
| ArneBab wrote: | | Should I remove the kde overlay then? |
I would. First, it could make Portage slower and second there isn't anything anyway that can be used with Portage.
| Quote: | | Still, thanks for providing it. |
You're welcome. |
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fldc2
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Motala, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| beso_1717 wrote: | i still don't understand what goes wrong with xorg-git version. the problem is always the same: nepomuk, phonon and knotify cannot contact dbus daemon and then start crashing so that kdeinit4 issues a sigvterm signal and logouts. to me it almost seems like a priviledges issue.
ps. why do i need nepomuk and soprano if i removed the semantic-desktop. |
I don't think the problem here is xorg, many of us have the same problems using xorg 1.4.0. |
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beso_1717
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Berniyh wrote: | Just for the information. There have been sets added for KDE 3.5.x.
So if you like the sets more than metas (and of course if you're using Paludis, like everyone in this thread, I guess), you can use these sets instead of the meta ebuilds.
The sets are named kdebase-35x, kdemultimedia-35x, kde-35x etc.
There is a kde-mono-35x, too.
These sets work just like the -scm sets, except of course, that --dl-reinstall-scm is useless with those sets.
If you find mistakes regarding this sets, please report. |
hmmm it tries to recompile my world when i try to compile the kdebase-35x with --dl-reinstall always (since just kdebase-35x wouldn't install anything).
| Code: | | 480 packages (1 new, 4 upgrades, 475 rebuilds), 126.76 MBytes to download |
which is about my whole world packages if we exclude kde4-scm.... is there somewhere an overlay where i could find the opensuse/kde4 similar kicker?! the sabayon one doesn't recompile after beagle update. |
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ArneBab
Guru
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Graben-Neudorf, Germany
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Berniyh wrote: | | ArneBab wrote: | | Should I remove the kde overlay then? |
I would. First, it could make Portage slower and second there isn't anything anyway that can be used with Portage. |
I removed it.
Could you explain what "kdebuild-1" does?
_________________
Being unpolitical means being political without realizing it. - Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de )
pkgcore: So fast that it feels unreal - by doing only what is needed. |
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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| beso_1717 wrote: | | Berniyh wrote: | Just for the information. There have been sets added for KDE 3.5.x.
So if you like the sets more than metas (and of course if you're using Paludis, like everyone in this thread, I guess), you can use these sets instead of the meta ebuilds.
The sets are named kdebase-35x, kdemultimedia-35x, kde-35x etc.
There is a kde-mono-35x, too.
These sets work just like the -scm sets, except of course, that --dl-reinstall-scm is useless with those sets.
If you find mistakes regarding this sets, please report. |
hmmm it tries to recompile my world when i try to compile the kdebase-35x with --dl-reinstall always (since just kdebase-35x wouldn't install anything). |
I'm not sure what you were trying to do there, but I'm almost sure, that --dl-reinstall always doesn't do it.
If you have no KDE installed and want to install kdebase:3.5, you would use:
| Code: | | paludis -i1 "kdebase-35x*" |
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beso_1717
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Berniyh wrote: | | beso_1717 wrote: | | Berniyh wrote: | Just for the information. There have been sets added for KDE 3.5.x.
So if you like the sets more than metas (and of course if you're using Paludis, like everyone in this thread, I guess), you can use these sets instead of the meta ebuilds.
The sets are named kdebase-35x, kdemultimedia-35x, kde-35x etc.
There is a kde-mono-35x, too.
These sets work just like the -scm sets, except of course, that --dl-reinstall-scm is useless with those sets.
If you find mistakes regarding this sets, please report. |
hmmm it tries to recompile my world when i try to compile the kdebase-35x with --dl-reinstall always (since just kdebase-35x wouldn't install anything). |
I'm not sure what you were trying to do there, but I'm almost sure, that --dl-reinstall always doesn't do it.
If you have no KDE installed and want to install kdebase:3.5, you would use:
| Code: | | paludis -i1 "kdebase-35x*" |
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paludis -i1 --dl-reinstall always kdebase-35x -p or paludis -i1 --dl-reinstall always "kdebase-35x*" -p
pushes whole world when kde3.5 is installed. i wanted to substitute my kdebase-meta package with the scm one but i got 0 packages to rebuild with just the scm and whole world rebuild with --dl-reinstall always. guess i'll just stay with the old ebuild, since at least a working 3.5 for me is mandatory. |
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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ArneBab wrote: | | Berniyh wrote: | | ArneBab wrote: | | Should I remove the kde overlay then? |
I would. First, it could make Portage slower and second there isn't anything anyway that can be used with Portage. |
I removed it.
Could you explain what "kdebuild-1" does? |
kdebuild-1 is an enhanced ebuild API, that supports more features thant EAPI 0 or 1 do.
One example are use deps.
In EAPI what you would do is, add a use check, that checks, if the package has been built with a specific use flag and if not, then the build will die with an error message.
Now with use deps the situation is a little bit different.
For example if you install amarok, with use flag opengl enabled, but you didn't install libplasma with useflag opengl enabled, it will error out before installing amarok, telling you, that you have to enable that use flag for plasma.
The nice thing for a user here is, that if you haven't installed libplasma at all, it will tell you to set that use flag before you install it.
If you have installed it without the use flag and changed it now, it will pull it in automatically.
(So you don't have to manually reinstall the package. Well actually that's not a kdebuild thing, it's more a Paludis thing, because you don't have to handle it like that, but it's nice. )
Another nice things are labels, kdebuilds supports labels in PDEPEND. For example dolphin has an integrated konsole, but obviously only, if konsole is installed.
Now we add a suggestion to the kdebuild of dolphin about that and then if you install dolphin, it will suggest to install konsole, too (but doesn't force you).
Currently it only suggests to do that, for kdebuild-2 it is considered, that there will be a message, what this suggestion will provide.
(This is also why there are commented messages in the kdebuilds already.)
Paludis allows you to specify, that all suggestions are installed automatically.
The third thing, that might be interesting for users is that you can run --info on uninstalled packages, too.
Not exactly a kdebuild thing, but very helpful for endusers, especially when using -scm stuff, are the sets provided with the ebuild.
I already wrote quite a few lines in this thread about how cool they are. 
(Maybe I forgot a few kdebuild features, there are more, but that is what came to my mind atm ) |
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Berniyh
l33t
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 677
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| beso_1717 wrote: | | Berniyh wrote: | | beso_1717 wrote: | | Berniyh wrote: | Just for the information. There have been sets added for KDE 3.5.x.
So if you like the sets more than metas (and of course if you're using Paludis, like everyone in this thread, I guess), you can use these sets instead of the meta ebuilds.
The sets are named kdebase-35x, kdemultimedia-35x, kde-35x etc.
There is a kde-mono-35x, too.
These sets work just like the -scm sets, except of course, that --dl-reinstall-scm is useless with those sets.
If you find mistakes regarding this sets, please report. |
hmmm it tries to recompile my world when i try to compile the kdebase-35x with --dl-reinstall always (since just kdebase-35x wouldn't install anything). |
I'm not sure what you were trying to do there, but I'm almost sure, that --dl-reinstall always doesn't do it.
If you have no KDE installed and want to install kdebase:3.5, you would use:
| Code: | | paludis -i1 "kdebase-35x*" |
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paludis -i1 --dl-reinstall always kdebase-35x -p or paludis -i1 --dl-reinstall always "kdebase-35x*" -p
pushes whole world when kde3.5 is installed. i wanted to substitute my kdebase-meta package with the scm one but i got 0 packages to rebuild with just the scm and whole world rebuild with --dl-reinstall always. guess i'll just stay with the old ebuild, since at least a working 3.5 for me is mandatory. |
Ah, ok. That did not, what you want to do. --dl-reinstall always (if no other options are specified) will reinstall the package and every package that it depends on.
What you want to do is this:
| Code: | paludis -u kdebase-meta
paludis -i kdebase-35x |
That will replace the meta ebuild with the set.
Since the actual ebuilds are the same, there is no need to "reinstall" anything.
The scm stuff has nothing to do with the -35x sets, for the -scm stuff use the -scm sets. |
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beso_1717
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Berniyh wrote: | | beso_1717 wrote: | | Berniyh wrote: | | beso_1717 wrote: | | Berniyh wrote: | Just for the information. There have been sets added for KDE 3.5.x.
So if you like the sets more than metas (and of course if you're using Paludis, like everyone in this thread, I guess), you can use these sets instead of the meta ebuilds.
The sets are named kdebase-35x, kdemultimedia-35x, kde-35x etc.
There is a kde-mono-35x, too.
These sets work just like the -scm sets, except of course, that --dl-reinstall-scm is useless with those sets.
If you find mistakes regarding this sets, please report. |
hmmm it tries to recompile my world when i try to compile the kdebase-35x with --dl-reinstall always (since just kdebase-35x wouldn't install anything). |
I'm not sure what you were trying to do there, but I'm almost sure, that --dl-reinstall always doesn't do it.
If you have no KDE installed and want to install kdebase:3.5, you would use:
| Code: | | paludis -i1 "kdebase-35x*" |
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paludis -i1 --dl-reinstall always kdebase-35x -p or paludis -i1 --dl-reinstall always "kdebase-35x*" -p
pushes whole world when kde3.5 is installed. i wanted to substitute my kdebase-meta package with the scm one but i got 0 packages to rebuild with just the scm and whole world rebuild with --dl-reinstall always. guess i'll just stay with the old ebuild, since at least a working 3.5 for me is mandatory. |
Ah, ok. That did not, what you want to do. --dl-reinstall always (if no other options are specified) will reinstall the package and every package that it depends on.
What you want to do is this:
| Code: | paludis -u kdebase-meta
paludis -i kdebase-35x |
That will replace the meta ebuild with the set.
Since the actual ebuilds are the same, there is no need to "reinstall" anything.
The scm stuff has nothing to do with the -35x sets, for the -scm stuff use the -scm sets. |
that's what i thought, but i still needed a confirmation.
i'd like an answer on another thing that bothers me a little:
git is able to sync and clone a svn repo via git-svn. also git is able to work on http when firewalls filter other traffic without much pain in the a**, while svn needs to install transconnect (a package dated 2002 that doesn't have an ebuild and that doesn't seem mantained anymore) and that i don't even know if builds on actual kernels (since it depends on some kernel includes from what i seem to have seen by looking at its code).
for this reason i was wondering what should i modify in the eclasses to be able to use git instead of svn. i had a look at the eclasses and they're not so small, so i was wondering if someone has thought about a similar substitution. |
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