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jesnow
l33t
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 857
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 Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: Web editing -- we're backsliding! |
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NVu is dead.
KompoZer has all of NVu's bugs (the ones that bugged me anyway) and the dev team is also MIA. Besides that, somebdy for ideological reasons feels it shouldn't be in Portage, so you have to download an ebuild from 3 versions ago and hope.
Where does that leave us? I know: emacs. Right. Well I use vi myself, I upgraded from scratching one's and zero's directly into the hard drive with a magnetized pin, but this is for my wife who needs a comfortable IDE to build her simple website.
Do I have to boot into windows for my wife to edit her web page? Really? What options are there for running under wine at least? I'm desperate, and apparently out of FOSS options.
Thanks,
Jon. |
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ppurka
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Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 3256
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Quanta? ( Personally, I use vim for my simple html needs and have no experience with kompozer, so my suggestion may be awkward  )
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timeBandit
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Joined: 31 Dec 2004
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Location: here, there or in transit
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:06 am Post subject: |
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SeaMonkey (www-client/seamonkey); for this application I recommend to build it with at least USE="moznoirc moznomail". Among other nice features it can publish files directly to the web hosting site via FTP.
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jesnow
l33t
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 857
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ppurka wrote: | | Quanta? ( Personally, I use vim for my simple html needs and have no experience with kompozer, so my suggestion may be awkward :P ) |
Quanta would be ok for me, but not enough help for my wife. She really needs something similar dreamweaver or frontpage where you never see a tag.
Seamonkey looks like it might work, I'm trying it now.
I tried installing Yahoo sitebuilder several different ways, but java is just not portable enough across platforms I guess.
Any more suggestions?
Jon. |
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bytenirvana
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Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Volksstaat Hessen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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I would recommend Dreamweaver under wine (look for older Dreamweaver versions eg in eBay).
Imho there is no good html editor for linux (go ahead and flame me (  I also hate GIMP) ).
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jesnow
l33t
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 857
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| bytenirvana wrote: | I would recommend Dreamweaver under wine (look for older Dreamweaver versions eg in eBay).
Imho there is no good html editor for linux (go ahead and flame me ( :arrow: I also hate GIMP) :P ). |
I'm coming to the same conclusion. I still have to run office under wine to get actual work done (go ahead and flame me people, you don't have to do my work).
I will try dreamweaver/wine.
Seamonkey looks ok -- it sure is a blast form the past! I would recemmend that everybody install it just for the nostalgia aspect. I think it may work for us because we don't need any of the newer aspects of html.
Any other nominees? |
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yngwin
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| jesnow wrote: | | ppurka wrote: | | Quanta? ( Personally, I use vim for my simple html needs and have no experience with kompozer, so my suggestion may be awkward ) |
Quanta would be ok for me, but not enough help for my wife. She really needs something similar dreamweaver or frontpage where you never see a tag. |
Quanta is the right tool for the job. If you can't work with html tags, you shouldn't develop webpages, in my opinion.
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i92guboj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| yngwin wrote: | | jesnow wrote: | | ppurka wrote: | | Quanta? ( Personally, I use vim for my simple html needs and have no experience with kompozer, so my suggestion may be awkward ) |
Quanta would be ok for me, but not enough help for my wife. She really needs something similar dreamweaver or frontpage where you never see a tag. |
Quanta is the right tool for the job. If you can't work with html tags, you shouldn't develop webpages, in my opinion. |
Yep. That why HTML is a "Language". It's supposed to be written, not drawn with a mouse. That's why the internet is full of broken web pages that look awful in all except one browser.
| jesnow wrote: | | bytenirvana wrote: | I would recommend Dreamweaver under wine (look for older Dreamweaver versions eg in eBay).
Imho there is no good html editor for linux (go ahead and flame me ( I also hate GIMP) ). |
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If there's something that linux has, it's text editors. Your statement only shows that you don't know how to use them, nothing else.
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I'm coming to the same conclusion. I still have to run office under wine to get actual work done (go ahead and flame me people, you don't have to do my work).
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Certainly I can't comment on office stuff. But if you really need msoffice, it surely is due to compatibility issues, and not due to any technical aspect, I bet.
In which regards web development, I do some web stuff. It's one of my jobs. Once you actually know html (and I am no expert, by the way), it's way easier and faster to use a text editor than to go clicking around, navigating menus and relying that a wysiwyg editor that will never produce efficient code, and that will never be able to produce something that can be edited a couple of years after without investing a lot of time in cleaning and refactoring, not to speak about validation (in case you care about standards). Dreamweaber is the best way to bloat a site that otherwise would take probably 5kbs on handwritten html+css.
However, not to stay completely off-topic, I see that no one mentioned Amaya on this thread. So I do. You might want to check it. |
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bytenirvana
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Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Volksstaat Hessen
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| i92guboj wrote: |
| jesnow wrote: | | bytenirvana wrote: | I would recommend Dreamweaver under wine (look for older Dreamweaver versions eg in eBay).
Imho there is no good html editor for linux (go ahead and flame me ( I also hate GIMP) ). |
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If there's something that linux has, it's text editors. Your statement only shows that you don't know how to use them, nothing else.
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I agree with you that HTML is a written language and to build valid, good sites you have to "understand what you are doing".
I also use vim to the point my shortcut memory allows me to do, but there are different tools for different tasks and Dreamweaver simplifies things "generic texteditor" cant (to the best of my knowledge).
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/things-dreamweaver-cs4/
I would love to know how you do point 2 (The Related Files Toolbar) and 3 (Code Navigator) in vim!
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i92guboj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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I haven't tested that feature so I can't comment either positively or negatively on it. However, most linux editors offer sessions, which should be able to achieve a similar functionality (just make a session with the related files and load it with a single click from a menu or with a key combo).
Vim and emacs are completely extensible and scriptable, so everything is doable if there's enough interest.
PS. About the code navigator, there's really little point in such a feature when your code is tidy and organized. HTML is and should always be minimal, clean, lineal. There's nothing like branches or complicated structures. If you use HTML for contents and leave the aspect to CSS you won't need such a thing as a code navigator. At least I never needed it. But it's of course just my opinion. Maybe quanta has something like this, I don't know since I don't use it. |
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jesnow
l33t
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 857
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| yngwin wrote: | | jesnow wrote: | | ppurka wrote: | | Quanta? ( Personally, I use vim for my simple html needs and have no experience with kompozer, so my suggestion may be awkward :P ) |
Quanta would be ok for me, but not enough help for my wife. She really needs something similar dreamweaver or frontpage where you never see a tag. |
Quanta is the right tool for the job. If you can't work with html tags, you shouldn't develop webpages, in my opinion. |
I'm glad you're not running things. Personally, I *can* use a text editor to edit html, but my wife can't. So you're saying she should have to hire you to put her stuff online. Nuts to that. |
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yngwin
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Or use some kind of Content Management System.
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rafo
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Sollentuna, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I never tried out Amaya's capabilities as an HTML editor (Seamonkey composer does it for me), but at least it is not a dead project. The latest release occurred just 16 days ago!
Amaya is not in Portage, but ebuild attempts can be found. Open this page and search for "gentoo". |
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jesnow
l33t
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 857
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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So what we've come around to is that:
NVu is dead
Kompozer is dead
Seamonkey has only the most basic editing capabilities, and cannot sync, but only upload. (My wife doesn't like that).
Amaya is not in portage
Quanta is one step up from vi
Emacs is the solution to everything, but not this.
Back at square 1 as far as I can tell.
My wife is looking at buying a windows machine *just* to edit her web page. Because she can then do it with Dreamweaver, Frontpage, Sitebuilder, all of which are maintained projects built for exactly this purpose.
I'd call that a *big* fail for FOSS.
Cheers,
Jon. |
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albright
Advocate
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 2588
Location: Near Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | My wife is looking at buying a windows machine *just* ... |
For sure, linux is not for your wife (in this respect at least), but
how about a mac? You'll get a better OS IMHO.
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tgurr
Retired Dev
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 571
Location: germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Perhaps CSS-Miami is worth a look, too? Besides that I'd also recommend using a content management system to work around your problem. |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'd call that a *big* fail for FOSS. |
Just because she doesn't want to learn a new way to do the things, it doesn't matter FOSS is lacking in that respect. It just means that she prefers the Windows based software. Nothing against that. It's as valid opinion as any other, but that's not a valid scale to measure the quality of the software at all. Lots of professional developers do prefer a text editor where you can actually see what you are doing and not what dreampainter is inventing on the background.
| jesnow wrote: |
My wife is looking at buying a windows machine *just* to edit her web page. Because she can then do it with Dreamweaver, Frontpage, Sitebuilder, all of which are maintained projects built for exactly this purpose.
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I respect the opinion. Everyone is free to use whatever s/he wants, and it's not me (an open source fan) who is going to deny that right that every person has. However, that's is overreacting. You can run it on a vm, you can run dreamweaber under wine, you can dual boot. If you want frontpage, I think that wine and/or crossover might run at least some versions of it just fine. If you want a dedicated machine for just that, nothing stops you, but it's not strictly needed by any means. |
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DaggyStyle
Watchman
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5910
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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[list=] | jesnow wrote: | So what we've come around to is that:
NVu is dead
Kompozer is dead
Seamonkey has only the most basic editing capabilities, and cannot sync, but only upload. (My wife doesn't like that).
Amaya is not in portage
Quanta is one step up from vi
Emacs is the solution to everything, but not this.
Back at square 1 as far as I can tell.
My wife is looking at buying a windows machine *just* to edit her web page. Because she can then do it with Dreamweaver, Frontpage, Sitebuilder, all of which are maintained projects built for exactly this purpose.
I'd call that a *big* fail for FOSS.
Cheers,
Jon. |
ok, so let me see if I can get it straight... you prefer to buy a whole new computer with windows only because amaya isn't in the portage tree?
you have installed Gentoo... the masochist's favorite distribution, you must have typed some commands in the console to achieve a working gentoo system, so creating a local overlay should be a piece of cake for you...
- use this link http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Creating_an_Updated_Ebuild#Using_a_Portage_Overlay to create the overley.
- download the ebuilds and the matching version of ayama compressed source code. notice that 9999 version is a svn/cvs and will download the code for you
- copy the compressed file into /usr/portage/distfiles folder.
- create the category folder in the overlay folder, you can use www-editor if you want or if the ebuild states otherwise
- create inside the category a folder with the exact name of the program and copy all ebuilds there
- on each ebuild run: ebuild filename.ebuild digest
- wait to see if there is any errors(usually due to missing dependecies which can be fix by upgrading them from portage or inserting them into the overlay)
- add the category/package to /etc/portage/package.keywords
if all goes well, emerge the program.
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yngwin
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jesnow wrote: | | Quanta is one step up from vi |
You're kidding, right? Or trolling?
Have you actually worked with Quanta? Because then you would know it is a pretty good program. If you can work with Dreamweaver, you should be able to work with Quanta.
But still, for someone who doesn't want to take the effort to learn HTML and CSS, using a CMS seems the best option. WordPress is easy to install, easy to use and widely supported. Don't be fooled by the idea that it is a blogging platform, it is much more powerful and flexible than that.
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bytenirvana
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Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Volksstaat Hessen
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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In related news: Netbeans 6.5 (in portage) seems to be a very good editor for web stuff - I'm testing it right now. However it is not an WYSIWYG editor for the "normal" user.
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jesnow
l33t
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 857
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| yngwin wrote: | | jesnow wrote: | | Quanta is one step up from vi |
You're kidding, right? Or trolling?
Have you actually worked with Quanta? Because then you would know it is a pretty good program. If you can work with Dreamweaver, you should be able to work with Quanta. |
I know quanta well, it's an excellent program (as is vi, which I use every day). The point is it's not a wysiwyg web editor by any stretch, it's a text editor with html enhancements. I believe there are even vi macros that do essentially the same thing. If you can see the characters '<' and '>' as a matter of course it's nothing my wife wants to work with.
| Quote: |
But still, for someone who doesn't want to take the effort to learn HTML and CSS, using a CMS seems the best option. WordPress is easy to install, easy to use and widely supported. Don't be fooled by the idea that it is a blogging platform, it is much more powerful and flexible than that. |
You may be right. I will look into that. It's often occurred to me that what she does is a lot like a blog.
Thanks! |
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Cyker
Veteran
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 1746
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ugh, you can hand-code with HTML3, but trying to do an all-singing page with HTML4+CSS is like brain torture. And AJAX! Arrgh! C++ is less brain damaging!  |
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avx
Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 2152
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| @tgurr, thanks. Didn't know about that - I guess, my wife can work with it :p |
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jsn
n00b
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 70
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| bytenirvana wrote: | | In related news: Netbeans 6.5 (in portage) seems to be a very good editor for web stuff - I'm testing it right now. However it is not an WYSIWYG editor for the "normal" user. |
Netbeans 6.5 is pretty nice (especially for php), anyhow, everytime I open css file it crashes. |
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jsn
n00b
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Posts: 70
Location: Finland
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