| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
zhenlin
Veteran
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 1361
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:52 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| hensan wrote: | There seems to be quite a few interpreters in portage:
Exult (Ultima 7)
FreeCraft (WarCraft/StarCraft) |
FreeCraft is a RTS game engine.
| Quote: | FreeSCI (Sierra SCI)
Frotz (Infocom)
Kwest (Infocom)
ScummVM (Lucasarts SCUMM)
Zoom (Infocom)
FreeSCI and Kwest are in app-emulation, the rest are in app-games. They should probably all go in the same place (games-emulation). |
Certainly. As long as somebody doesn't figure out how to turn it into a Turing Tarpit.
The thing is, though, that these aren't emulators, but interpreters (re-implementations of game engines), so they should really have their own category, games-interpreter or something.
Any thoughts?[/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Genone
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 9538
Location: beyond the rim
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SpanKY wrote: | | hmm, how about combining 'games-rts' and 'games-strategy' into just 'games-strategy' ? |
Good idea, unless there are >50 packages in rts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lovechild
Advocate
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 2858
Location: Århus, Denmark
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hensan wrote: | There seems to be quite a few interpreters in portage:
Exult (Ultima 7)
FreeCraft (WarCraft/StarCraft)
FreeSCI (Sierra SCI)
Frotz (Infocom)
Kwest (Infocom)
ScummVM (Lucasarts SCUMM)
Zoom (Infocom)
FreeSCI and Kwest are in app-emulation, the rest are in app-games. They should probably all go in the same place (games-emulation).
The thing is, though, that these aren't emulators, but interpreters (re-implementations of game engines), so they should really have their own category, games-interpreter or something.
Any thoughts? |
To the average user that's the same... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Genone
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 9538
Location: beyond the rim
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SpanKY wrote: | | zhenlin wrote: | | We need an abbreviation for app-entertainment or entertainment-funny... app-funny? |
the idea of a 'funny' category isnt bad ... problem is we want to put manpages in there, so we couldnt use 'app-' ...
|
And ? Most packages in app-doc or app-i18n aren't programs.
| Quote: | how about games-misc ? 
or maybe a 'games-funny' ... |
Well, these packages have nothing to do with games, so I don't like the games- prefix. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lovechild
Advocate
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 2858
Location: Århus, Denmark
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
games-crap
games-waste
or just crap-crap |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hensan
l33t
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 868
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lovechild wrote: | games-crap
games-waste
or just crap-crap |
How about misc-crap |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hensan
l33t
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 868
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The category games-roguelike seems a bit odd, maybe there should the a new category called games-adventure, and then move the games in roguelike to either games-adventure or games-rpg. Just a thought. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nikai
Apprentice
Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 270
Location: Kitzbühel, Austria
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Depends on the number of categories you want to end up. IMO games-roguelike is an exact description of the genre, just like games-cards.
You can see that in Usenet hierarchy, news://rec.games.roguelike.{adom,angband,nethack} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hensan
l33t
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 868
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ok, didn't realise it was an established genre name. It should probably stay as it is then... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think games-racing should be dropped - either it goes in games-simulation or games-action.
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
How would you classify games like tetris? Some people say 'puzzle', but others might say 'arcade'. I'd lean towards arcade, but it's not really an arcade game. But it's not a puzzle game.
[EDIT] Well those types of games are listed as 'puzzle' on happypenguin.org, so I guess that's what they are!
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi
Last edited by charlieg on Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hensan
l33t
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 868
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If you look at the homepages of most falling-blocks/blobs/whatever games, you see that they descibe their games as puzzle games, so that's what I think we should call them too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Genone
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 9538
Location: beyond the rim
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| charlieg wrote: | How would you classify games like tetris? Some people say 'puzzle', but others might say 'arcade'. I'd lean towards arcade, but it's not really an arcade game. But it's not a puzzle game.
|
Searching freshmeat for tetris gives 27:8 for puzzle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Agreed.
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've almost finished categorising all the games. Just 20 or so more to go.
(I've spent the last 2 hours doing it! Looking up each game!)
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
4 more to go!
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
[EDIT] bleh dupe of the above
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi
Last edited by charlieg on Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, I've finished.
A few things.
I think games-support and games-tools should be merged into games-extra.
You could probably rename games-educational to games-kids and move the typing tutorials into game-misc.
There is nowhere to classify adventure games. There are few enough at the moment for this not to matter - I can't think of anything other than scummvm.
Whilst mentioning scummvm, initially a lot of people had classified scummvm, exult and other game engines as emulators. These are not emulators, they are game engines that uses (usually) commercial game data. This I corrected, although I put scummvm in games-misc and there is no games-adventure category and I'm not sure whether it's worthwhile having a category for just 1 game. Although this could change in the future - Beneath a Steel Sky is now free and some upcoming adventure games (KQ9?) should run on Linux.
I moved all games-rts into games-strategy and all games-racing into games-simulator.
I'm not sure how clear the line between arcade and action is, most of the classifications there are done according to how the games are classified on happypenguin.org. For instance, is Phobia3 an arcade game? Probably. Is it an action game? Definitely. I thinking that games that you play 'quickly' for a few minutes are arcade games, and games that are a little more absorbing should probably be classified as action games.
Also, should games-mud, games-roguelike, and games-rpg all be the same category? They really don't have that many inhabitants.
This type of situation is one where having a more database like portage would be a boon. A lot of these games might fall into several categories. Also you could list whether they have a text, X, or 3d interface. As it is we'll have to make do with game-genres, I guess.
Anyway, hope that helped, SpankY.
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hensan
l33t
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 868
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| charlieg wrote: | | I think games-support and games-tools should be merged into games-extra. |
How about putting them in games-misc?
| charlieg wrote: | | You could probably rename games-educational to games-kids and move the typing tutorials into game-misc. |
games-kids sounds good to me.
| charlieg wrote: | | Whilst mentioning scummvm, initially a lot of people had classified scummvm, exult and other game engines as emulators. These are not emulators, they are game engines that uses (usually) commercial game data. |
I mentioned this earlier, suggesting a category games-interpreter, but lovechild thought most people don't know/care about the difference between emulators and interpreters so I put them in games-emulators. I really think they should be in a special category since they are not complete games in themselves, but as you said require data files from commercial games or homemade datafiles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zhenlin
Veteran
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 1361
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hensan wrote: | | charlieg wrote: | | I think games-support and games-tools should be merged into games-extra. |
How about putting them in games-misc?
|
No. Support daemons (pysol-sound-server only, apparently) isn't a game.
games-extra sounds like a good place to dump games-addons and games-datafiles into. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hensan
l33t
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 868
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forgot to comment a few things...
| charlieg wrote: | | I'm not sure how clear the line between arcade and action is, most of the classifications there are done according to how the games are classified on happypenguin.org. For instance, is Phobia3 an arcade game? Probably. Is it an action game? Definitely. I thinking that games that you play 'quickly' for a few minutes are arcade games, and games that are a little more absorbing should probably be classified as action games. |
That sounds like a good definition to me.
| charlieg wrote: | | Also, should games-mud, games-roguelike, and games-rpg all be the same category? They really don't have that many inhabitants. |
Not sure I agree with this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hensan wrote: | | I mentioned this earlier, suggesting a category games-interpreter, but lovechild thought most people don't know/care about the difference between emulators and interpreters so I put them in games-emulators. I really think they should be in a special category since they are not complete games in themselves, but as you said require data files from commercial games or homemade datafiles. |
They're not interpreters though. They're game engines. Scummvm is the adventure equivalent to the Quake engine. It simply requires that you provide it with some game data. Now, would you list Quake (sans game data) as an emulator?
The same goes for freecraft (which is dying anyway). And for freecnc, and for freecol. They are not emulators or intepreters. They are game engines. Therefore they should go in their respective categories. It is up to the game documentation to educate the user that they need some form of game media.
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SpanKY
Developer
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 321
Location: Somerville, MA
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ok, lets tackle some open issues
games-interpreter for all the engines ... they're technically arent emulators so why label them as so ... yeah, to the average user, they're the same ... but the average user probably wont be emerging the package
keep games-strategy as charlie has changed them ... that is, all the rts are in games-strategy for now ... maybe when we get more turn based games and more rts games we can make the split ... i lubz0r the rts
games-mud, games-roguelike, and games-rpg will stay sep categories ... there are enough to warrant sep categories imo
games-simulator needs to be broken up ... i think if we have games-sports, and we move all the sports games into it (wait until we get more racing games so we can split them off into games-racing) that would be fine ...
i'll roll with the games-kids idea since http://www.tux4kids.org/ seems to have more stuff we could add
now, the open issues ...
(1):
games-support/games-tools ... i think the stuff in games-tools belongs there (maybe just rename to games-util since we have dev-util and not dev-tools), and that the 3 pkgs in games-support should just be put in with the original game ... so freecraft-fcmp goes in games-strategy, pyddr-songs goes in games-arcade, etc...
(2):
these damn misc-funny/games-misc/app-entertainment packages
either we go with 'app-funny' or 'games-funny' ... you guys seem to like the 'app-funny' more correct ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charlieg
Advocate
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SpanKY wrote: | | games-interpreter for all the engines ... they're technically arent emulators so why label them as so ... yeah, to the average user, they're the same ... but the average user probably wont be emerging the package |
Why not just keep each game 'interpreter' in the genre category that they belong to?
| SpanKY wrote: | | games-mud, games-roguelike, and games-rpg will stay sep categories ... there are enough to warrant sep categories imo |
To be honest, I agree. When looking through happypenguin.org, there's a lot of games that pertain to these categories that have not yet made it into portage.
| SpanKY wrote: | | games-simulator needs to be broken up ... i think if we have games-sports, and we move all the sports games into it (wait until we get more racing games so we can split them off into games-racing) that would be fine ... |
There's just not enough to make this worthwhile yet, IMO. And racing games could be construed as simulation, arcade or action. The view I took was that if it was a detailed game (torcs, racer), it went into the games-simulator category, whereas if it was a simpler fun game (tuxkart!) it went into games-arcade or games-action.
This is why I mentioned a more db like portage. Many games cross multiple categories with regards to their target audience.
Yeah, I felt it was something that people would want to distinguish between. You don't want to emerge a game to find out it's aimed at toddlers, yet if you want games for younger children you don't want to have to track them down through all the different categories.
You could probably add stuff like tux-paint into games-kids.
| SpanKY wrote: | now, the open issues ...
(1):
games-support/games-tools ... i think the stuff in games-tools belongs there (maybe just rename to games-util since we have dev-util and not dev-tools), and that the 3 pkgs in games-support should just be put in with the original game ... so freecraft-fcmp goes in games-strategy, pyddr-songs goes in games-arcade, etc... |
Agreed. Although games-extra would be a nice compromise. 
| SpanKY wrote: | (2):
these damn misc-funny/games-misc/app-entertainment packages
either we go with 'app-funny' or 'games-funny' ... you guys seem to like the 'app-funny' more correct ? |
I just stuck them in games-misc. I guess games-toys - toys is the equivalent happypenguin.org category - it'd be nice to maintain some kind of correlation with hp given that a lot of people will look first to hp when searching for games.
_________________
Want Free games?
Free Gamer - open source games list & commentary
Open source web-enabled rich UI platform: Vexi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zhenlin
Veteran
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 1361
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I maintain that:
fortune is not a toy.
fortune is not a game.
fortune is not an application worthy of app-misc.
I also maintain that:
app-funny is an oxymoron and needs to be persecuted.
misc-* needs to be created
misc-funny is appropriate for fortune.
Magic 8 balls can go into games-toys though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Gentoo Chat
