The FSF doesn't endorse Gentoo?

[cord]

[Naib]

the real question is ... why do you hold FSF approval in such esteem?

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/License_Groups/FSF-APPROVED
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[The Doctor]

ACCEPT_LICENSE= would never satisfy FSF. They are fanatics who do no believe any proprietary code should exist for any reason and that distros must eliminate any proprietary code and DRM-compatible code from their repository.

The only way Gentoo could be approved is if the portage tree, including the kernel, where purged of any proprietary material and take steps to discourage users from installing it themselves. That would include vanilla-sources, flash, and basically any web browsers. Such a tree does exist and is FSF approved, Ututo. Needless to say that would severely limit the utility of Gentoo and be contrary to the mission statement of "build it to your specification."

FSF fanaticism only hurts Linux. Users simply are not going to switch if they can't user their computer by design. A happy medium is the only way to go.
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First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.

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[Naib]

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The cell phone example is a real world scenario where the radio and its software must not be altered. It pertains directly to the discussion.

It's also one I have some knowledge of. I used to be a licensed radio operator, and I know that if you transmit on the wrong wavelengths -- even by interference not on the main frequency -- then the military may just decide to come after you with helicopters. The premise that you can do anything you want is patently false.

[Naib]

An even better example is HMS Sheffield. Anyone that has had anything to do with EMC will know of this example.

And yes I can those in this thread that have an appreciation or more obviously those that are ignorant of it. I deal with motor drives so I have the added complexity of power quality and EMC. 4the gen IGBT have switching rates knocking on the lower frequency of EMC profiles. I'm looking into GAN at the moment and while it is <3 from power qual and control. It's a nightmare for EMC
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[szatox]

Geez....

[Naib]

[Hu]

No one is seriously suggesting that users ought to be legally immune for modifications that operate the device in ways outside local regulation. Some people are suggesting, quite reasonably, that while manufacturers ought to include sufficient safeguards that users cannot accidentally violate local regulation, that manufacturers ought not be required, and ought not voluntarily implement when not required, lockouts that prevent wholly unrelated legal uses solely because that's the only practical way to absolutely ensure that no one uses the device in violation of local regulation. We went through this with copyright/VHS decades ago. VHS can be used to make infringing copies of copyright-protected works. Making such copies is a violation of copyright law, and users who use the technology that way expose themselves to legal liability. Yet we still permitted VHS tapes and VHS recorders to be sold, because there were substantial non-infringing uses.

If the manufacturer wants to ship a router that has a software lockout, or even a hardware lockout, that keeps it in compliance with local regulation, that's fine by me. I take issue with the idea that they ship a router that has a software or hardware lock preventing user modification out of paranoia that a user might perform a modification that takes the device out of regulation. Some people have substantial non-violating uses for custom router software, particularly around adding features that the manufacturer should have included, but did not. Users who exploit that freedom to load software that can violate local regulations must exercise care not to violate, on pain of legal liability.

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I'm saying that the cell phone transciever is an example of why some source code should stay closed and immutable except by licensed entity.

I'm saying that the vendor of a device containing some combination of open and closed source which could be easily modified in a way that would violate serious laws in the areas the device is marketed are vulnerable to a lawsuit. Which means there is valid cause to prevent modification like that, at least to a reasonable extent.

I can't see how a vendor should be liable for a hack by an educated, determined force intent on subverting a law. That's where the law should go after the black hats.

[Akkara]

[Ant P.]

[The Doctor]

The problem with RF is that the "bright kid playing around" can do an exceptional amount of damage, including potentially lethal damage, without even knowing it. The airwaves are a very limited resource.

Food for thought. Aircraft communicate on frequencies divided by 25 kHz in the 118-137 MHz range. Under the best of conditions these communications are prone to interference. Can you imagine an airliner full of passengers rendered unable to communicate due to a modified cellphone? Its a basic AM radio and very sensitive to interference.

Or GPS. The signal strength is notoriously weak. One small modification to a device and you will have disabled all navigation systems near by.

These devices must lock out unauthorized tampering because any modification will damage legitimate users of the airwaves. No maybe. You mess with RF you are either overpowering legitimate users, or interfering with them. Probably both. The bright kid playing with RF is a menace, as is anyone messing about without knowing exactly what they are doing and thoroughly testing it. There are plenty of things to play with that don't damage other people's ability to use their devices.

The only reason your cell phone works is because the airwaves are so tightly regulated. This isn't meant to stop the bad guys. Its meant to stop people from unknowingly polluting the airwaves, and it works.
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First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.

[Naib]

[krinn]

The problem is that they are indeed locking down device for security or safety, but allowing that without control, you endup with them locking down for whatever reason they wish.
Look at the PS3, at first you could boot another os, and people were booting a linux, then for no reason, sony lock down alternate os booting, and people that have brought the PS3 because of the feature were fuck. Where is the security there?

There should be just no lock down allow in any device except by exception and exception must not be written, but asked, justified and grant per device.
We all know tomorrow all devices will be more intelligent and connected, what if your fridge stop working, because well, its manufacturer have seen you didn't change it for X years and it should be taken down, well, you know, for security, because your X years fridge works ok but is no longer "in the norms".
What if your brand new car is taken down the next year, because sure it is electric car, but its batteries are no more into the norms, so they shut it off ; for security of course.
And i'm asking you, do sony have sent an offer to pay back user of ps3 that have brought it with the alternate os booting feature?

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[Naib]

even then that is in the 10's of MHz range & is a sinusoidal exponentially damped signal .. not going to do jack to wifi or cellular. Sure AM will get hit if it was turned to a specific station and well we are back at illegal transmissions again and the definition of a criminal is someone that breaks laws.
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[Naib]

the EM waveform is an exponentially decaying sinus where the fundamental is determined by the tank components and the period governed by the timeconstant for the spark to re-occur. That is obviously a tuned sparkgap to maximise energy into the transmission rather than a poor generator that will produce broad RF (with an even lower transmission radius...)

again to push home this sparkgap nonsense in blacking out a block... consider the more fun usage of a sparkgap... Jacobs ladder or even better Tesla coil. a few MHz, easily need 1kW of power... upt 6m away there will be wideband RF that will disrupt wifi/cellular etc... outside of that its fine (unless the Tesla is of higher power)
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[szatox]

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