ntfs-3g file names oddity

i92guboj · Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:17 am Post subject: ntfs-3g file names oddity

Hi,

I've been far from Windows for quite a while. Now I need to share some data with a Windows user and I am a bit lost. FAT is quite limited, cdroms are an unnecessary waste (or so I hope), so I guessed that the remaining choices would be to use either NTFS or Ext2 with some of the Windows available drivers for that purpose.

I tried the ext2 solution first, because I am more comfortable with that. My first idea was to create a small 16mb FAT16 partition in a 8gb pendrive to host the ext2 driver. Then assign the remaining space as ext2. The problem is that at a later stage I discovered the hard way that Windows (sigh) can only handle one drive letter for a pendrive (Windows as its best, as always...). So, the only solution in that direction would be to ship two pens instead of one. Beautiful :twisted:

The only option left is ntfs3g. I formatted the drive again as a single NTFS partition, copied the files, everything went well. But now Windows complains that it can't read some files. I discovered a few files with ':' in the middle, so I guess the problem is that there are "illegal" characters in the file names. Now, the natural question is why the hell does ntfs3g allow to create illegal file names in first place. The second natural question is: am I doing something wrong? Is there maybe some configuration settings that I am not aware of that will prevent this behavior so my NTFS's are actually useful for anyone else besides me?

I know I can resort to shell scripting to fix this, as long as I know all the illegal characters. It's a pretty trivial thing to do. But that's not the question.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Edited: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1253837.html , A bit exasperating. Well, I guess I'll have to resort to bash to do the work. If someone has an idea I am still hearing.

xaviermiller · Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:28 am Post subject:

Same other problem : two files with same name, but different capitalization (ex : "hello.txt" and "HELLO.TXT", which are identical for Windows, but different for *NIX).
_________________
Kind regards,
Xavier Miller

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 23066

i92guboj · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:49 am Post subject:

Thanks for all the input. I've read their FAQ, I can't say I agree with them but oh, well, it's their product, they can do whatever they want with it. This flaw renders their product useless for anyone that hasn't scripting capabilities though. But I don't want yet another war about that here.

I'll upload the script to my server once it's tested. I don't know when will that be, but I'll post a link here in case anyone else wants to actually use the ntfs-3g driver, because without a proper file name mangling mechanism it's useless for any practical purpose, unless all your file names use the DOS conventions.

Cyker · Veteran Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1746

Make all punctuation that isn't supported (Or just all punctuation aside from '.' if you can't be arsed) a '-' or a '_' (_ is the 'standard' P2P munging char), that should do it as a quick hack.

I'm hoping case shouldn't be an issue (I've yet to find a valid scenario where anyone would need a file with the exact same name in differing case!)

I still have a tendency to make my filenames 8+3, and if I can't then alphanumerics with no spaces, which has saved me many times from the filenaming wars

i92guboj · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject:

I try to keep it simple as well. However that doesn't help when you have to share lots of files from multiple sources. Most people simply lack the background, knowledge or simply do not care about it.

Cyker · Veteran Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1746

i92guboj · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject:

Yup.

I guess there are opinions in both directions. The ntfs-3g people seem to think that enforcing file names that can be handled in Windows is not a must, as long as the file names can be stored in the NTFS volume. Users on the contrary want to just use the driver, and are not interested in technicalities. Both are valid points I think, though I am inclined more in the later direction than the former. I don't care if my engine can handle bigger wheels if there's no way I can fit them into my car chassis. But, as said, it's their doing, so they have the right to do whatever they want.

Cyker · Veteran Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1746

Aye, alas this is all opinions and politics. I just want my shit to work

Soo... how's that script coming along? :mrgreen:

i92guboj · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject:

It doesn't yet have any kind of error handling and it's mostly untested. I paste it below. You obviously need to change the mv lines so it does the actual work. I intentionally paste it this way because people usually like to blindly try untested stuff and then come back complaining. Be sure you don't check this against any important files, though because of its simplicity, I am fairly sure it should be harmless.

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 23066

Cyker · Veteran Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1746

To be fair, it is tricky just because of all the edge cases (Aside from upper and lower case being different, POSIX also allows non-printable characters; I've seen filename 'jokes' that reprogram your terminal when ls'd! :eek:

), plus what to do with filenames that would be duplicates post-mangle.

Samba is pretty much the only thing that tries to interop between the two namespaces, and it does very well in sane situations, but as soon as invalid chars come into the equasion, it will just reduce filenames to the mangled 8+3, or possibly hide them in the case of duplicates (e.g. README.TXT and readme.txt).

Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 23066