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| Will you prefer KDE4 oder KDE3.5? |
| I love my dear old KDE3.5! |
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35% |
[ 60 ] |
| I switched (I will, as soon as it is stable for my arch) |
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64% |
[ 108 ] |
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| Total Votes : 168 |
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MalleRIM
Guru
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 563
Location: China
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 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: Will you stick with KDE-3.5? |
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Now with KDE4 going stable, I'm wondering, who will stick with (good old?) KDE3.5. Please don't make a flamewar of it.
My story (short). I started with GNOME and tried KDE3 several times and never got satisfied with it. I tried KDE4 because I was bored and I liked it a lot, although KDE 4.1 wasn't actually a Desktop I'd use for production work. I found more and more apps fitting in the KDE Desktop and now I'm happy with it. But I'm looking forward to GNOME3, too. |
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d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Right now on my stable AMD64, I' using Kde 4.3.1 as it's pretty stable and fast.
I have a Nvidia Top 260 and a Quad Core, so I have a lot of power  |
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poly_poly-man
Advocate
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 2477
Location: RIT, NY, US
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I tried switching to 4.0, hated it, went back.
I tried switching to 4.1, hated it, but a little less, still went back.
forgot about it until I switched to ext4 and I lost my 3.5 config, then I decided I had nothing to lose by trying 4.2, loved it, stuck.
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d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| You can disable all the 3D effects, so it can be pretty fast and you can recover the kicker menu instead of the new version of kickoff. |
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dmpogo
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3499
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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I probably will never switch, not because I love 3.5, but because i find all these desktop advances pretty boring and uninteresting to follow. I don't need much from the desktop, and kde-3.5 is more or less right (well, I still mourn the loss of the virtual destop concept in the modern desktops). I would have been more excited about development in
networked desktop solutions, so I could seemlessly work on multiple remote machines. Thing that was original strength of Unix/X, and what was largely ignored in desktop development for the last 10 years.
If 3.5 suddenly becomes unusable now - I'll go back to xfce, or, perhaps, rehash my old fvwm setup files  Also I do not plan to upgrade hardware for the next couple of years, and I prefer to enjoy snappiness of my current setup. In 2 year time, we'll see what will be around.
Last edited by dmpogo on Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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durian
Guru
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 312
Location: Rörums Holma
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I still run xfce for my main daily use...but I can see myself switching to 4.3 (I tried 4.3.2). I never liked KDE 3.5...
-peter |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 9371
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I switched a long time ago and never looked back. |
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unK
l33t
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 769
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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I use 3.5 because I am too lazy to switch to 4 and configure it.
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SamuliSuominen
Retired Dev
Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 2133
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Intresting poll...
/me is busy removing KDE3 support from apps around Portage. |
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Roman_Gruber
Advocate
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 3846
Location: Austro Bavaria
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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well one vote for gnome.
i dont like kde3.5, but it was useable for windows nuubs (sorry for saying that), like my father and brother
kde 4 4.1 and 4.2 didnt worked for me, i emerged them.
now i will try the newest relaese 4.3 |
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dmpogo
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3499
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| d2_racing wrote: | | You can disable all the 3D effects, so it can be pretty fast and you can recover the kicker menu instead of the new version of kickoff. |
That's hardly an option for a kde-3 computer class with not that latest hardware |
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d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| tw04l124 wrote: | | well one vote for gnome. |
Yeah, and why not try something new like Xfce,LXDE or even Awesome |
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Cyker
Veteran
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 1746
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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I really dislike the Vista-ness of KDE4, and all that stuff about it being faster and using less resources seems to have been totally false too. 
ATM I'm sticking with KDE 3.5 because I have no good reason to get KDE4; I don't want to waste zots jumping through hoops to get 4.3 to work with TightVNC when, ultiately, I have no reason to do so.
It use Linux because it works; I don't chase the shiny and the new just because they are shiny and new.
I have a feeling the issue will be forced soon tho'; The KDE3 vs 4 situation is very similar to the Win98/2k vs XP/Vista situation that I run into in my work - Many modern Windows apps don't work in Win98 or Win2k, but require WinXP or Vista, while many older apps don't work properly in the newer OS'.
KDE4 is already having this effect on KDE3 which is really depressing - I assumed I could run qt4 stuff in KDE3 just by having the libs, but the KDE bindings are such that this is not possible. It's actually easier to get Gnome apps working in KDE3 than it is getting KDE4 apps! How messed up is that?! |
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energyman76b
Advocate
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2048
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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'vistaness' and then you compare KDE with the Vista of linux: gnome?
strange.
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MalleRIM
Guru
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 563
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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can somebody please make an "over" out of the "oder"? That typo looks a little strange  |
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BitJam
Advocate
Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 2513
Location: Silver City, NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Even kde-4.3 still seems pretty badly broken to me. I'm using the kde-3.5 desktop because kde-4 doesn't support the features I like best (such as dcop, or different background images for different desktops) and seemed to add a lot of crap^H^H "features" that greatly reduced usability (for me).
I've been using konq-4.3 (which is looking an awful lot like Firefox) but I'm amazed at some of the showstopper bugs such as not being able to enter long urls into textareas (because they get line wrapped! Is there a "don't mangle urls" checkbox somewhere? And if so, why isn't it on be default?). And where did the Google searchbar go? Even the new Amarok dropped features I rely on in the kde-3 version.
Perhaps this is partly due to the fact that I don't handle UI changes well. I once re-sold a car because I couldn't deal with changing from a manual to an automatic transmission. If we ignore the whiz-bang effects, and the qt upgrade, etc, what makes kde-4 more usable than kde-3 besides the fact that you don't get told "we no longer support that version"? |
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energyman76b
Advocate
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2048
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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instead of dcop use dbus. You can do the same stuff.
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poly_poly-man
Advocate
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 2477
Location: RIT, NY, US
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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BitJam: Look into desktop "activities" - this will help you out. And dbus is the new incarnation of dcop.
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BitJam
Advocate
Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 2513
Location: Silver City, NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| poly_poly-man wrote: | | BitJam: Look into desktop "activities" - this will help you out. And dbus is the new incarnation of dcop. |
Thanks for the reply. I realize that dbus is supposed to replace dcop but even now, it hasn't fully done that. Apps I was easily able to control years ago with dcop still don't have an equivalent dbus interface. Sure, someday in the future dbus will replace dcop, but for now, it hasn't happened. This is exactly what I'm talking about. From a user's perspective dcop totally rocked. It got ripped out and is no longer there so all my investment in dcop is wasted, but the functionality hasn't been fully replaced even in kde-4.3 so even if I wanted to change everything over to dbus, I can't. |
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poly_poly-man
Advocate
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 2477
Location: RIT, NY, US
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| BitJam wrote: | | poly_poly-man wrote: | | BitJam: Look into desktop "activities" - this will help you out. And dbus is the new incarnation of dcop. |
Thanks for the reply. I realize that dbus is supposed to replace dcop but even now, it hasn't fully done that. Apps I was easily able to control years ago with dcop still don't have an equivalent dbus interface. Sure, someday in the future dbus will replace dcop, but for now, it hasn't happened. This is exactly what I'm talking about. From a user's perspective dcop totally rocked. It got ripped out and is no longer there so all my investment in dcop is wasted, but the functionality hasn't been fully replaced even in kde-4.3 so even if I wanted to change everything over to dbus, I can't. |
well, then, file bugs on kde.org about missing functionality. Or, start coding yourself.
Unfortunately, the instinct from the user point of view is to stay with legacy stuff and not go into stuff with bugs, where developers need to find bugs by users so the new stuff can be as good as the old.
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avatar: new version of logo - see topic 838248. Potentially still a WiP. |
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drescherjm
Advocate
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 2792
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:04 am Post subject: |
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It's been over a year since I have run kde-3.5. And I use gentoo 8 hours a day 7 days a week. I was actually shocked to see this poll being from October of 2009 and not 2008.
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My gentoo overlay
Instructons for overlay |
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BitJam
Advocate
Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 2513
Location: Silver City, NM
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| poly_poly-man wrote: | | well, then, file bugs on kde.org about missing functionality. Or, start coding yourself. |
That would be appropriate for an alpha or beta release but for version 4.3.2 I don't expect to be forced to fix basic usability problems. There are other options besides jumping into the kde-4 development process. For example, one could stick with kde-3.5.10 and instead of investing time and effort debugging kde-4, start migrating to a different desktop environment entirely.
I didn't come here to complain. I was hoping that I had overlooked something and someone could point me in the right direction (i.e. not writing code and fixing bugs). Maybe it is a personal quirk of mine but I need my desktop environment to be relatively bug free so I can spend my limited time and energy on things besides fixing the desktop. I remember when Gnome released a very buggy version 1.0 early so they could announce it at some conference or other. I struggled with it for a few days and then went back to kde, started to get work done again, and stuck with kde ever since.
When kde-4 came out, I waited until version 4.2 to even try it because I didn't want to be on the desktop bleeding edge. Now it seems that support for 3.5 will be gone soon so my choice is either to get on the bleeding edge or switch to a different desktop environment. So again I ask you, I am well aware of the usability that I am losing when switching from kde-3 to kde-4, what usability am I gaining? Submitting a bunch of bug reports for very basic problems (like line wrapping urls) or jumping in and fixing the bugs myself is not my idea of enhanced usability.
It is curious that some people seem to see kde-4 as a huge improvement and others can't stand it. Maybe it is like the difference between the introduction of the Intel Itanium 64-bit processor and the Amd-64 64-bit processor. The Itanium hit the marketplace many years before Amd-64 but the Itanium never really took off while Amd-64 took off like a rocket. One reason is that Intel broke backward compatibility and could only run legacy code via inefficient software emulation. So users who had a lot of legacy code were just not interested and this happened to be the vast majority of users. Maybe with kde-4, the people who have a lot of legacy kde-3 stuff that will never work on kde-4 are the ones who are really turned off.
But I still don't understand how people put up with fundamental usability problems like linewrapping urls in some textarea boxes. It is brain-dead on many levels. First of all, everyone expects auto linewrapping only on whitespace. This works, it has worked for years and there is no reason to change it, especially when the change makes it very hard to enter any long url containing a hyphen (having to manually replace every hyphen with %2D or whatever) . Second, there is a "stylistic" choice to either wrap words at hyphens or, as I was taught, never wrap words at hyphens. As Donald Knuth would tell you, if you linewrap at hyphens then you destroy information because a reader will never know if a hyphen at the end of a line indicates a wrapped word that normally doesn't have a hyphen or is a word that is normally hyphenated there and also happened to wrap. Also, in technical writing and elsewhere when I write "kde-3" or "kde-4", I use the hyphen to draw the two parts closer together, not to push them further apart. Wrapping at the hyphen pushes the two parts as far apart as possible. Finally, somebody, somewhere thought this was a good idea despite the many serious drawbacks and went out of their way to add the code that caused this breakage and it somehow got it through QA and years of use without getting fixed, yet I ran into it on my first use of Konq-4.3.
So if I have to file bug reports or do actual coding to fix simple stuff like this on version 4.3.x then I'm just not interested because it indicates a mindset that I would prefer to not have to deal with: adding extra code that breaks basic functionality in order to force a style choice on people that destroys information. |
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rafo
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Sollentuna, Sweden
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SamuliSuominen
Retired Dev
Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 2133
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| drescherjm wrote: | | It's been over a year since I have run kde-3.5. And I use gentoo 8 hours a day 7 days a week. I was actually shocked to see this poll being from October of 2009 and not 2008. |
Same here. The poll is also void, because KDE3 has no Gentoo or Upstream maintainers. Read: 0 developers.
Any broken package, with a small bug, and it's KDE3-only package, will simply be removed.
And soon entire KDE3 will be removed from Portage, some core elements might be moved to overlay, where it will rot and die. |
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dmpogo
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3499
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ssuominen wrote: | | drescherjm wrote: | | It's been over a year since I have run kde-3.5. And I use gentoo 8 hours a day 7 days a week. I was actually shocked to see this poll being from October of 2009 and not 2008. |
Same here. The poll is also void, because KDE3 has no Gentoo or Upstream maintainers. Read: 0 developers.
Any broken package, with a small bug, and it's KDE3-only package, will simply be removed.
And soon entire KDE3 will be removed from Portage, some core elements might be moved to overlay, where it will rot and die. |
I wouldn't be saying that with any kind of pride.
It is actually an example of a failure in development model. |
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