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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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 Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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this isn't really related as you are comparing a web driven gui with cli tools.
CLI tools suppose you have the program to access the computer while webmin suppose you just have a browser under your hands.
And webmin do much more than just handling samba, just for the ability to upload/download a file from your computer saved me many time. |
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jeffk
l33t
Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 671
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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The devs masking/removing webmin mentioned some trampling on user config (i.e. LVM) that the ebuild was doing.
I dCould we have a list of things that webmin fiddled with in our /etc's that we should try to revert to stock configurations?
Thanks. |
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Genone
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 9538
Location: beyond the rim
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| jeffk wrote: | The devs masking/removing webmin mentioned some trampling on user config (i.e. LVM) that the ebuild was doing.
Could we have a list of things that webmin fiddled with in our /etc's that we should try to revert to stock configurations? |
The sandbox prevented the webmin setup script from doing that, so you don't have to worry about that (unless you disabled the sandbox). If you're still interested in details, please check the ebuild and the referenced bug numbers. |
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swelljoe
n00b
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:56 am Post subject: |
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I'm one of the developers on the Webmin/Virtualmin projects.
While I'm not going to try to tell anyone whether Webmin ought to be in the Gentoo ebuild repos; that's up to Gentoo developers/maintainers to decide whether it fits your goals. (Though we're always happy to have it included in OS standard repos.)
But, I do want to clear up a few misconceptions that I've seen repeated a couple of times:
1. License. Webmin is under a very liberal BSD-like license. It's impossible to find fault with the license...it's as open as licenses get. You can find the license in the LICENSE file within the Webmin archive and in any Webmin installation. (And, the Open Source version of Virtualmin, as I recall there was a Virtualmin ebuild as well, is under a standard GPLv2. Also pretty darned open and free.)
2. Security. There are no known current exploits of Webmin. It is actively maintained, and has been actively maintained for a dozen years. The Webmin security history is public and can be found here: http://webmin.com/security.html
3. Webmin does things in the way the OS prefers, whenever possible, and whenever we know what the OS prefers. This is usually reliant upon a user familiar with the OS letting us know what the OS prefers (preferably sending us patches that add config files, or rarely actual code changes, for the differences), since we can't possibly have deep familiarity with every Linux distribution. It is however, an administrative tool, and so if modifying configuration files or performing root-level actions is a problem, then there's nothing to be done...that's its purpose in life. |
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georgia_tech_swagger
n00b
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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I too find Webmin immensely useful and will no real F/OSS replacement.
I filed a bug at Bugzilla to unmask or at least leave it on Portage. I encourage you to vote on the bug if you're in the same boat as me.
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335161 |
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winblowzxp
n00b
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:50 am Post subject: |
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I too find it useful to the Nth. I like to be able to see what's going on with my server when I log into Webmin. The thing I like most about it is that everything I need to do to administer my server is right there in one place.
I'm not a webhost, so I don't need anything as elaborate as cPanel, etc., and Webmin fits that bill. It seems a bit flippant to remove a software package that does what it's sole purpose is to do. |
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Simba7
l33t
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 706
Location: Billings, MT, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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So.. Webmin is officially out of the Gentoo Portage directory, eh?
..even though I use it on several servers.. Just wondering why.. |
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radulucian
Apprentice
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 151
Location: Bucharest Romania
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it seems that gentoo developers think that having it outside of portage is smarter and more secure than having at least some control over it...
I am quite disappointed, but will probably keep using gentoo, unless emerge gets removed from portage or something like that  |
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neofutur
n00b
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 21
Location: France
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: |
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A good thing : webmin is still in the menelkir overlay.
I use mostly ssh for gentoo admin, for sure its better, but webmin is secure and a very good tool I provide to my users.
removing the installer, removing webmin, no support for any admin panel . . .looks like some people really want gentoo to die . . . most datacenters who were supporting gentoo install are dropping it, whats next ?
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Hwoarang
Retired Dev
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 701
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| If you wanted webmin to stay in portage you should have stepped up and fix the mentioned problems. We are just volunteers. We can't possibly do everything |
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PhobosK
n00b
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| radulucian wrote: | Yeah, it seems that gentoo developers think that having it outside of portage is smarter and more secure than having at least some control over it...
I am quite disappointed, but will probably keep using gentoo, unless emerge gets removed from portage or something like that |
Hehe well an ostrich like behaviour is a preferred to some humans way of behaving Although they forget that "bottom line" is always out and quite visible 
And yeah it is quite disappointing... But the worse is that this behaviour has been a trend in Gentoo for the last year... 
And there are always the usual excuses like the QA, "you should have stepped up and fix the mentioned problems", "instead of flaming in Bugzilla or in the forums fix it" etc etc etc... and the mere truth is that more and more, the devs prefer just to bump ebuilds or do "easy" and not so time consuming support of already "well established" software in the portage tree...
Let's face it Gentoo has started to go down a slope ...
Nevertheless i will use it till the devs support most of the packages i use... Though recently i had a very good impression on Arch.... Who knows maybe i will convert to it sooner than i expect...
| swelljoe wrote: | | ...While I'm not going to try to tell anyone whether Webmin ought to be in the Gentoo ebuild repos; that's up to Gentoo developers/maintainers to decide whether it fits your goals. (Though we're always happy to have it included in OS standard repos.) ... |
Well from all the things i've read today on this topic here, on Diego's blog, bugzilla etc etc... it seems devs want you (the developers of Webmin) to fix their own problem... which is btw insane... but probably they do not know how hard it is to support a software even on the 5 more common dist... Anyway... another thing that i am annoyed of, is the way they neglect Webmni.. but it is another topic...
For all those that need Webmin, you can try the new ebuild (seems decent enough, thanks for the job to the author)
or try Gadmintools (not in portage too)
or find some alternative here (almost none of them in portage too) 
Best solution for now is just to trust the authors of Webmin and use their setup.sh (like i did) ... it will not fail you anyway nor it will disintegrate your PC |
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Hwoarang
Retired Dev
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 701
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Guys I don't get you. Yes the ebuild was TFU and yes it was our fault. But until someone steps up and fixes it, we cannot have it back. Like I said, we can't do anything by ourselves. If someone has working ebuilds which actually fix all the problems, attach them to the bug and we can move on from there. Gentoo is not just the developers. community contribution is more important. |
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PhobosK
n00b
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Hwoarang wrote: | | ....Like I said, we can't do anything by ourselves...... Gentoo is not just the developers. community contribution is more important. |
Hmm... well that was exactly my point... that the devs do not actually consider/care about users' opinion.. most of them started to treat Gentoo as their own propriety... especially lately...
'Cause last version of Webmin in portage as far as i remember did ebuild with no probs.. and after it there were no real security problems fixed upstream... so it could have been hard masked with the proper warnings....
Removing it will just bring endless discussions, will make it appear in overlays i.e will become totally uncontrollable...
And since you are one of the devs, you already know how slow the "procedure" for returning a pack blamed for risky, back in tree is...
Anyway you are right about one thing... with all these would've, could've etc.. we do not help... but work is going on.. we will see how it will end up and how soon will that be done in portage... I have my doubts based on my experience lately...
..like a recent new version of a major package that failed applying a patch at the first step of building, because someone did not checked it actually how it builds, and uploaded it to tree.... would you like more examples?
As far as i followed the proposed ebuild, it is doing the job quite well.. at least it could enter back portage masked... but this will not happen till it is totally tested for "bugs"... no matter that meanwhile more buggy ebuilds of other software will enter tree as masked 
That is my point actually... so as dev i think you should do help with this too |
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Hwoarang
Retired Dev
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 701
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| PhobosK wrote: | | Hwoarang wrote: | | ....Like I said, we can't do anything by ourselves...... Gentoo is not just the developers. community contribution is more important. |
Hmm... well that was exactly my point... that the devs do not actually consider/care about users' opinion.. most of them started to treat Gentoo as their own propriety... especially lately...
'Cause last version of Webmin in portage as far as i remember did ebuild with no probs.. and after it there were no real security problems fixed upstream... so it could have been hard masked with the proper warnings....
Removing it will just bring endless discussions, will make it appear in overlays i.e will become totally uncontrollable...
And since you are one of the devs, you already know how slow the "procedure" for returning a pack blamed for risky, back in tree is...
Anyway you are right about one thing... with all these would've, could've etc.. we do not help... but work is going on.. we will see how it will end up and how soon will that be done in portage... I have my doubts based on my experience lately...
..like a recent new version of a major package that failed applying a patch at the first step of building, because someone did not checked it actually how it builds, and uploaded it to tree.... would you like more examples?
As far as i followed the proposed ebuild, it is doing the job quite well.. at least it could enter back portage masked... but this will not happen till it is totally tested for "bugs"... no matter that meanwhile more buggy ebuilds of other software will enter tree as masked
That is my point actually... so as dev i think you should do help with this too |
I think you miss the point. Developers maintain packages that they are really interested in. So, just because our users want webmin desperately, we can't just maintain it without using it. This is pretty much how every distro works. The difference is that the rest of the distros have maintainers who use webmin personally and this is why the keep maintaining it. I think you understand that don't you?
I don't think re-adding a package to tree is pain. It takes only 30'' if the ebuild is correct. The main reason this package was gone was because it has a lot of QA/sandbox problems. Even if it installed correctly it did stuff that it was not supposed to do even if you did not notice it. This is why Diego mentioned "security reasons". All the problems you mentioned are again due to the lack of a dedicated maintainer.
I don't think you are right about the "extensive testing" before it re-hits the portage. I could easily commit it in 2' (masked) but I really need to have a look first before that.
I would also like to remind you, the users can also be maintainers of packages. All you need is a developer to commit on your behalf. So if someone really really wants to maintain it, I am sure a developer will step up and work with him. |
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PhobosK
n00b
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Hwoarang wrote: |
.... Developers maintain packages that they are really interested in. So, just because our users want webmin desperately, we can't just maintain it without using it. |
Yeah thanks for at least being honest ... Actually you summarised the problems we have with Gentoo... You are right about this... but I think it counts for Gentoo devs mostly... not all distro devs are like this... And since as you can see i am a pretty longtime Gentoo user... I remember much diff times than these we have today... And i do all this discussion not to flame or anything but BECAUSE I CARE about what happens with the distro.....
| Hwoarang wrote: |
..... This is pretty much how every distro works. The difference is that the rest of the distros have maintainers who use webmin personally and this is why the keep maintaining it. I think you understand that don't you?
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You are not right again... Since i am working with other distros too i can assure you this is not always the case with every other distro... And i think if you use other distroes on a regular basis.. you know that too And if you don't... bad for you
| Hwoarang wrote: |
I don't think re-adding a package to tree is pain. It takes only 30'' if the ebuild is correct.
....I don't think you are right about the "extensive testing" before it re-hits the portage. I could easily commit it in 2' (masked) but I really need to have a look first before that. |
Yeah we all know what dedicated devs can do in a blink of an eye But i was not talking about how fast you can technically add smth to portage... rather than i was talking about how much time it actually takes an ebuild blamed risky or whatever to be back Its not happening for the first time and YOU KNOW that
| Hwoarang wrote: |
The main reason this package was gone was because it has a lot of QA/sandbox problems. Even if it installed correctly it did stuff that it was not supposed to do even if you did not notice it. This is why Diego mentioned "security reasons"....
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Well we both know how many other packages misbehave the same way but they still stay in portage... I wonder why this pack exactly did catch Diego's attention
| Hwoarang wrote: |
I would also like to remind you, the users can also be maintainers of packages. All you need is a developer to commit on your behalf. So if someone really really wants to maintain it, I am sure a developer will step up and work with him. |
Yeah again we have a different point of view... because if it was so easy for a user with general ebuild skills to contribute to portage... there wouldn't be more than 5000 open requests for new ebuilds... and of course there would not be so much useful packages missing in portage like any decent system admin tool for example etc...
Anyway one thing is for sure... everything depends solely on the persons involved... if they behave selfishly.. nothing good comes out of it...
And btw, the mere fact that this obviously proved in practise, regulary maintained upstream and wide used package named Webmin, with a lacking alternative in portage, for almost a year NO GENTOO DEV has done any real effort to fix the ebuild and put it in tree.... speaks enough for the level of the distribution... Sorry but this is the truth...
BTW since i know where all this "discussion" will end and because I do not plan wasting my time in meaningless accusations both sides... I think its time to end it...
Do what you want to do... I do not care much anymore... I found my solution so it is time for you to find yours |
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Hwoarang
Retired Dev
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 701
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't want to start an endless discussion here. Bottom point is that unless a user/users step up and help us a bit, this ebuild wont make it to portage. Don't tell me about the Gentoo problems. I am aware of them and I am trying to mitigate them. And you can't really put all the devs under the same umbrella. We are different people, having different motivations and interests. This is an opensource project so developers contribute whenever they can, wherever they can . |
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PhobosK
n00b
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm i wonder why i did not expect anything else as an answer ...
And... well I'm sorry if i did upset you ....
Anyway thanks for explaining me what open-source project is, and what the devs of such a project do ... 'cause with my 10 years of experience in this field, it seems I still do not know this simple truth
Ok i am unsubscribing this thread to make it easier for both of us
Have a nice evening |
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Hwoarang
Retired Dev
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 701
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I am not sure what kind of answer did you expect. I am not upset. I am just saying how things are. I don't think I revealed any big secret. But anyway, all I was trying to do is to help getting this package back. I am not in mood for trolling. If you don't appreciate what we do for Gentoo, then I really *really* can't help you |
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PhobosK
n00b
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Hwoarang wrote: | | ....I am not in mood for trolling..... |
Yeah sure... when someone has a different than a Dev's view on something... the words "trolling", "troll" etc... come in use very quickly
=====================
Anyway i am not here for this
And i must apologise that i am breaking my promise to unsubscribe this thread... but there are some changes in the circumstances...
I'd like to inform all watchers of this thread that I have created a new webmin ebuild for version 1.560 and had uploaded it to the Gentoo bug support system ( https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348432#c11 )
Please test it and I hope you will enjoy it... Any comments are welcomed (incl. critics )
And lets see now how fast a Gentoo Dev can be in uploading to portage ...
...or other excuses will be found @Hwoarang  |
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Hwoarang
Retired Dev
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 701
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'd rather ignore you from now on.
Last edited by Hwoarang on Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MoonWalker
Guru
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Webmin is back in portage - hurrey!
And thanks to all involved for getting over your personal differences and got down to get the darn thing done!
Gentoo comes with an attitude so take it with an attitude, but don't take it personal
Well done!
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Living on earth is expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun
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kernelOfTruth
Watchman
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 6111
Location: Vienna, Austria; Germany; hello world :)
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Fresh User
n00b
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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when I do emerge webmin
I get the message :
~ # emerge webmin
* IMPORTANT: 2 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'.
* Use eselect news to read news items.
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-Parser-2.36-r1
[ebuild N ] dev-perl/Sys-Hostname-Long-1.400.0
[ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-Generator-1.01
[ebuild N ] dev-perl/IO-Tty-1.08
[ebuild N ] dev-perl/YAML-Tiny-1.41
[ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Test-Harness-3.17
[ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Archive-Tar-1.54
[ebuild N ] perl-core/ExtUtils-CBuilder-0.27.03
[ebuild N ] perl-core/Time-Local-1.19.01
[ebuild N ] perl-core/Time-HiRes-1.97.19
[ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Sys-Syslog-0.270.0-r1
[ebuild N ] virtual/perl-ExtUtils-CBuilder-0.27.03
[ebuild N ] dev-perl/MD5-2.30.0
[ebuild N ] dev-perl/Authen-PAM-0.160.0
[ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Time-Local-1.19.01
[ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Time-HiRes-1.97.19
[ebuild N ] perl-core/ExtUtils-ParseXS-2.22.05
[ebuild N ] virtual/perl-ExtUtils-ParseXS-2.22.05
[ebuild N ] perl-core/Module-Build-0.36.07
[ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.36.07
[ebuild N ~] dev-perl/Authen-Libwrap-0.220.0 USE="-test"
[ebuild N #] app-admin/webmin-1.570 USE="ssl -ldap -minimal -mysql -postgres"
The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed:
#required by webmin (argument)
>=app-admin/webmin-1.570 ~amd64
#required by app-admin/webmin-1.570, required by webmin (argument)
>=dev-perl/Authen-Libwrap-0.220.0 ~amd64
The following mask changes are necessary to proceed:
#required by webmin (argument)
# /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask:
# Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> (17 Sep 2011)
# Masked for testing for as long as it takes. Old QA problems
# reported in bug #348432 and
# http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2010/08/20/there-s-something-about-webmin
# must go away (if they haven't already) before unmasking webmin
>=app-admin/webmin-1.570
NOTE: This --autounmask behavior can be disabled by setting
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--autounmask=n" in make.conf.
Use --autounmask-write to write changes to config files (honoring CONFIG_PROTECT).
* IMPORTANT: 2 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'.
* Use eselect news to read news items.
so... what should I do next to complete installation of webmin? |
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PhobosK
n00b
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Since the ebuilds of Webmin (and Authen-Libwrap) are considered unstable and still being tested, you need to:
- Add app-admin/webmin and dev-perl/Authen-Libwrap to your /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords file (create one if you do not have it).
- Add app-admin/webmin to your /etc/portage/package.unmask file (create one if you do not have it).
For more info read the Gentoo Handbook - Mixing Software Branches |
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