Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
[SOLVED] Synaptics - Dell Inspiron N4030 freaks out
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Kernel & Hardware
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
danielhilst
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:40 pm    Post subject: [SOLVED] Synaptics - Dell Inspiron N4030 freaks out Reply with quote

Hi, I'm using gentoo on a Dell Inspiron 4030..

I got touchpad working really bad with such xorg.conf section

Code:

Section "InputDevice"
  Driver      "synaptics"
  Identifier "TouchPad"
  Option     "Device" "/dev/psaux"
  Option      "SendCoreEvents" "true"
  Option      "Protocol" "alps"
# Option      "Protocol" "evdev"
# Option      "Protocol" "auto-dev"
  Option      "SHMConfig" "on"
EndSection   


When I move the cursor it acts as tapping and keeps freaky clicking wherever it goes messing my desk...
With `Option "Protocol"` as evdev or auto-dev it works as a normal mouse, but without synaptics features
as scroll. Moreover the Xorg.0.log gives-me this errors when I try this options:

Code:
[  2448.540] (EE) TouchPad no synaptics event device found
[  2448.568] (EE) Query no Synaptics: 6003C8
[  2448.568] (EE) TouchPad Unable to query/initialize Synaptics hardware.
[  2448.573] (EE) PreInit failed for input device "TouchPad"


.. and the KDE gives me some errors messages too, like "Warning: Thouchpad configuration is not supported on this system.
When I use alps protocol I got no errors but that weird behavior

Any help??


Code:
I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0001 Version=0000
I: Bus=0011 Vendor=0002 Product=0001 Version=0000
N: Name="PS/2 Generic Mouse"
P: Phys=isa0060/serio1/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input6
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=mouse0 event6
B: EV=7
B: KEY=70000 0 0 0 0
B: REL=3


_________________
"Do or do not, there is no try" Yoda Master


Last edited by danielhilst on Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VoidMage
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 6196

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems you've got it mixed up.
Remove that block you've added (it doesn't have any useful setting) and add a path match "/dev/input/event*"
to the snippet that got installed with the driver.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danielhilst
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you mean like this??

Code:
  Option     "Device" "/dev/input/event*"


I try it, and event6 that is what appears in
Code:
gentoo ~ # cat /proc/bus/input/devices
I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0001 Version=0000
N: Name="Power Button"
P: Phys=PNP0C0C/button/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0C:00/input/input0
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=kbd event0
B: EV=3
B: KEY=10000000000000 0

I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0005 Version=0000
N: Name="Lid Switch"
P: Phys=PNP0C0D/button/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0D:00/input/input1
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=event1
B: EV=21
B: SW=1

I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0003 Version=0000
N: Name="Sleep Button"
P: Phys=PNP0C0E/button/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0E:00/input/input2
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=kbd event2
B: EV=3
B: KEY=4000 0 0

I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0001 Version=0000
N: Name="Power Button"
P: Phys=LNXPWRBN/button/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXPWRBN:00/input/input3
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=kbd event3
B: EV=3
B: KEY=10000000000000 0

I: Bus=0019 Vendor=0000 Product=0006 Version=0000
N: Name="Video Bus"
P: Phys=LNXVIDEO/video/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0A08:00/LNXVIDEO:01/input/input4
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=kbd event4
B: EV=3
B: KEY=3e000b00000000 0 0 0

I: Bus=0011 Vendor=0001 Product=0001 Version=ab41
N: Name="AT Translated Set 2 keyboard"
P: Phys=isa0060/serio0/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/i8042/serio0/input/input5
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=sysrq kbd event5
B: EV=120013
B: KEY=500f02902002 8380307cf910f001 feffffdfffefffff fffffffffffffffe
B: MSC=10
B: LED=7

I: Bus=0011 Vendor=0002 Product=0001 Version=0000
N: Name="PS/2 Generic Mouse"
P: Phys=isa0060/serio1/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input6
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=mouse0 event6
B: EV=7
B: KEY=70000 0 0 0 0
B: REL=3


but got these errros

Code:
gentoo ~ # cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE
        (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
[  9461.026] (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
[  9461.661] (EE) TouchPad Unable to query/initialize Synaptics hardware.
[  9461.677] (EE) PreInit failed for input device "TouchPad"


:cry:

here is all my xorg.conf
Code:
Section "ServerLayout"
   Identifier     "X.org Configured"
   Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
   InputDevice    "TouchPad" "CorePointer"
   InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
   Option       "AllowEmptyInput" "false"
EndSection

Section "Files"
   ModulePath   "/usr/lib64/xorg/modules"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/misc/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/TTF/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/OTF/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/Type1/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/"
EndSection

Section "Module"
   Load  "synaptics"
   Load  "dri2"
   Load  "extmod"
   Load  "record"
   Load  "glx"
   Load  "dri"
   Load  "dbe"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
   Identifier  "Keyboard0"
   Driver      "kbd"
EndSection

#Section "InputDevice"
#   Identifier  "Mouse0"
#   Driver      "synaptics"
#   Option       "Protocol" "auto-dev"
#   Option       "SendCoreEvents"   
#   Option       "SHMConfig" "on"
#   Option       "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
#   Option       "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7"
#EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
  Driver      "synaptics"
  Identifier "TouchPad"
  Option     "Device" "/dev/input/event6"
  Option      "SendCoreEvents" "true"
  Option      "Protocol" "alps"
#  Option      "Protocol" "evdev"
#  Option      "Protocol" "auto-dev"
  Option      "SHMConfig" "on"
EndSection


Section "Monitor"
   Identifier   "Monitor0"
   VendorName   "Monitor Vendor"
   ModelName    "Monitor Model"
EndSection

Section "Device"
        ### Available Driver options are:-
        ### Values: <i>: integer, <f>: float, <bool>: "True"/"False",
        ### <string>: "String", <freq>: "<f> Hz/kHz/MHz",
        ### <percent>: "<f>%"
        ### [arg]: arg optional
        #Option     "AccelMethod"           # [<str>]
        #Option     "DRI"                   # [<bool>]
        #Option     "ColorKey"              # <i>
        #Option     "VideoKey"              # <i>
        #Option     "FallbackDebug"         # [<bool>]
        #Option     "Tiling"                # [<bool>]
        #Option     "Shadow"                # [<bool>]
        #Option     "SwapbuffersWait"       # [<bool>]
        #Option     "XvMC"                  # [<bool>]
        #Option     "XvPreferOverlay"       # [<bool>]
        #Option     "DebugFlushBatches"     # [<bool>]
        #Option     "DebugFlushCaches"      # [<bool>]
        #Option     "DebugWait"             # [<bool>]
   Identifier  "Card0"
   Driver      "intel"
   BusID       "PCI:0:2:0"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
   Identifier "Screen0"
   Device     "Card0"
   Monitor    "Monitor0"
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     1
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     4
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     8
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     15
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     16
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     24
   EndSubSection
EndSection



8O
_________________
"Do or do not, there is no try" Yoda Master
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VoidMage
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 6196

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I mean drop that section completely.
xf86-input-synaptics installs 50-synaptics.conf.
Read 'man xorg.conf' about InputClass and add that match into that file.
SHMConfig has been obsoleted by xorg-server 1.8.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danielhilst
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I start to think that the problem is my thouchpad been detect as a generic PS/2 mouse

I try /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf with:
Code:
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "touchpad catchall"
          Driver "synaptics"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event6"
        Option "VertEdgeScroll" "TRUE"
        Option "TapButton1" "1"
EndSection


My mouse just doesn't respond and I got these errors

KDE Synaptics configuration says:
Touchpad configuration is not suported on this system.
Code:
car /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE
   (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
[  3051.183] (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
[  3051.753] (EE) PS/2 Generic Mouse Unable to query/initialize Synaptics hardware.
[  3051.769] (EE) PreInit failed for input device "PS/2 Generic Mouse"

Code:
dmesg | grep "PS/2"
[    2.141855] PNP: PS/2 Controller [PNP0303:KBC,PNP0f13:PS2] at 0x60,0x64 irq 1,12
[    2.170212] mice: PS/2 mouse device common for all mice
[    3.165150] input: PS/2 Generic Mouse as /devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input6

Code:
synclient
Couldn't find synaptics properties. No synaptics driver loaded?

Code:
syndaemon
Unable to find a synaptics device.

_________________
"Do or do not, there is no try" Yoda Master
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VoidMage
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 6196

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. did you remove those sections from xorg.conf ? drop that '"AllowEmptyInput"' line too
2. that was literal '/dev/input/event*', not to put a number there
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kilua
n00b
n00b


Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could also be useful if you add

Code:
MatchIsTouchpad "on"


to your 50-synaptics.conf file .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VoidMage
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 6196

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kilua wrote:
It could also be useful if you add

Code:
MatchIsTouchpad "on"


to your 50-synaptics.conf file .


Oh, I missed that, but shouldn't that line be already there ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danielhilst
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VoidMage wrote:
1. did you remove those sections from xorg.conf ? drop that '"AllowEmptyInput"' line too
2. that was literal '/dev/input/event*', not to put a number there


I removed the input sections from xorg.conf, I also try without xorg.conf (the errors are the same)
I'm not at home right now.. when I get home I try the /dev/input/event* and add the
MatchIsTouchpad "on" on 50-synaptics.conf too

:roll:
_________________
"Do or do not, there is no try" Yoda Master
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danielhilst
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I add the line /dev/input/event* to 50-synaptics.conf and the MatchIsTouchpad "on" too

I got no errors on Xorg.0.log => http://sprunge.us/HDbO
but KDE still complains about "The touchpad configuration is not supported in this system"

I noticed that X was using some files at /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d so I move
all this files to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
There is a 10-evdev.conf file:
Code:
#
# Catch-all evdev loader for udev-based systems
# We don't simply match on any device since that also adds accelerometers
# and other devices that we don't really want to use. The list below
# matches everything but joysticks.

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev pointer catchall"
        MatchIsPointer "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev keyboard catchall"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev touchpad catchall"
        MatchIsTouchpad "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev tablet catchall"
        MatchIsTablet "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev touchscreen catchall"
        MatchIsTouchscreen "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection


I noticed that removing
Code:
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev pointer catchall"
        MatchIsPointer "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection
from this file makes my mouse stops to work.. So the file 50-synaptics.conf
makes no difference while pointer catchall sections seems to be what is making
my mouse work...


I try to follow http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Synaptics_Touchpad/Xorg_7.3 before
start this post, the wiki guide talks about hal. There is no /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/11-x11-synaptics.fdi
on my system. Can be hal my problem???


50-synaptics.conf
Code:
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "touchpad catchall"
        Driver "evdev"
        MatchIsTouchpad "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
EndSection


xorg.conf
Code:
Section "ServerLayout"
   Identifier     "X.org Configured"
   Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
EndSection

Section "Files"
   ModulePath   "/usr/lib64/xorg/modules"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/misc/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/TTF/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/OTF/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/Type1/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/"
   FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/"
EndSection

Section "Module"
   Load  "synaptics"
   Load  "dri2"
   Load  "extmod"
   Load  "record"
   Load  "glx"
   Load  "dri"
   Load  "dbe"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
   Identifier   "Monitor0"
   VendorName   "Monitor Vendor"
   ModelName    "Monitor Model"
EndSection

Section "Device"
        ### Available Driver options are:-
        ### Values: <i>: integer, <f>: float, <bool>: "True"/"False",
        ### <string>: "String", <freq>: "<f> Hz/kHz/MHz",
        ### <percent>: "<f>%"
        ### [arg]: arg optional
        #Option     "AccelMethod"           # [<str>]
        #Option     "DRI"                   # [<bool>]
        #Option     "ColorKey"              # <i>
        #Option     "VideoKey"              # <i>
        #Option     "FallbackDebug"         # [<bool>]
        #Option     "Tiling"                # [<bool>]
        #Option     "Shadow"                # [<bool>]
        #Option     "SwapbuffersWait"       # [<bool>]
        #Option     "XvMC"                  # [<bool>]
        #Option     "XvPreferOverlay"       # [<bool>]
        #Option     "DebugFlushBatches"     # [<bool>]
        #Option     "DebugFlushCaches"      # [<bool>]
        #Option     "DebugWait"             # [<bool>]
   Identifier  "Card0"
   Driver      "intel"
   BusID       "PCI:0:2:0"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
   Identifier "Screen0"
   Device     "Card0"
   Monitor    "Monitor0"
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     1
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     4
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     8
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     15
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     16
   EndSubSection
   SubSection "Display"
      Viewport   0 0
      Depth     24
   EndSubSection
EndSection



Thanks in advance!!! :)
_________________
"Do or do not, there is no try" Yoda Master
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VoidMage
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 6196

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're on a correct way to master mixing things up.

First of all, that guide is outdated - xorg-server 1.9 on Gentoo doesn't use hal.
You should have left 10-evdev.conf and 50-synaptics.conf where they were - I only said to edit the synaptics file,
cause due to freebsd, that path match isn't there by default.

Once you those files back (it was safe to leave evdev section for Pointer - those files are parsed in order and synaptics is later),
pastebin the new xorg log.

A minor thing though: is that ""PS/2 Generic Mouse"" actually a synaptics touchpad ? If so, your kernel config is probably wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danielhilst
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if I mess up things.... I didn't know that this guide was outdated

I do what you say..

Xorg.0.log => http://sprunge.us/CjMR

dmesg | grep "PS/2" => http://sprunge.us/hDVh

I have this options marked in my kernel

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/geckones/kernel_menuconfig_devices_input_mice.png

:roll:
_________________
"Do or do not, there is no try" Yoda Master
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yamakuzure
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2305
Location: Adendorf, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danielhilst wrote:
I start to think that the problem is my thouchpad been detect as a generic PS/2 mouse
It seems you have an ALPS Touchpad. The newer ones aren't recognized (correctly yet) by the kernel. Maybe this gentoo bug referencing this kernel bug might help. I do use the kernel patched mentioned in comment 11 in the gentoo bug and my ALPS touchpad works with scrolling and tapping. With the patch the touchpad is no longer recognized as a PS/2, but a IMPS/2 mouse. So you can throw synaptics out of the window, anyway.

Note: "MatchIsTouchpad" will never trigger if the kernel says it is a mouse...
_________________
Edited 220,176 times by Yamakuzure
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danielhilst
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
danielhilst wrote:
I start to think that the problem is my thouchpad been detect as a generic PS/2 mouse
It seems you have an ALPS Touchpad. The newer ones aren't recognized (correctly yet) by the kernel. Maybe this gentoo bug referencing this kernel bug might help. I do use the kernel patched mentioned in comment 11 in the gentoo bug and my ALPS touchpad works with scrolling and tapping. With the patch the touchpad is no longer recognized as a PS/2, but a IMPS/2 mouse. So you can throw synaptics out of the window, anyway.

Note: "MatchIsTouchpad" will never trigger if the kernel says it is a mouse...


Thanks Yamakuzure, apply the patch works..
Now I got my touchpad being detected as an ImPS/2 ALPS, scroll and double tap works perfectly, thank you..

Code:
gentoo ~ # dmesg | grep "PS/2"
[    2.092920] PNP: PS/2 Controller [PNP0303:KBC,PNP0f13:PS2] at 0x60,0x64 irq 1,12
[    2.120941] mice: PS/2 mouse device common for all mice
[    2.767559] input: ImPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint as /devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input6

:)
_________________
"Do or do not, there is no try" Yoda Master
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danielhilst
n00b
n00b


Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a tool for configuring alps touchpads as such syndaemon/synclient do for synaptics??

I want to disable touchpad when I'm typing but "alps configuring" searches on google redirects me to
synaptics pages aways. The options as MaxTapTime "0" doesn't work for alps touchpads!

:roll:
_________________
"Do or do not, there is no try" Yoda Master
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yamakuzure
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2305
Location: Adendorf, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. The touchpad is still recognized as a mouse, not a touchpad. All the synaptics tools won't work unless this is solved. I once wrote to ALPS whether they might want to help, but I never got a reply. :-(
_________________
Edited 220,176 times by Yamakuzure
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bloedie
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.

My touchpad works fine with these settings in xorg.conf

Code:

Section "Device"
    Identifier     "Nvidia0"
    Driver         "nvidia"
    VendorName     "nVidia Corporation"
    BoardName      "GeForce G 105M"
    Option         "AllowGLXWithComposite" "true"
    Option         "AddARGBGLXVisuals" "True"
    Option         "ConnectToAcpid" "off"
EndSection

Section "Files"
    ModulePath "/usr/lib64/xorg/modules"
    ModulePath "/usr/lib64/opengl/xorg-x11/extensions/"
EndSection


Section "InputClass"
    Identifier  "keyboard-all"
    Driver      "evdev"
    Option      "XkbLayout"  "de"
    Option      "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys"
    MatchIsKeyboard "on"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
   Identifier "touchpad catchall"
   MatchIsTouchpad "on"
   MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
   Driver "synaptics"
   Option "VertEdgeScroll" "true"
   Option "HorizEdgeScroll" "true"
   Option "TapButton1" "1"
   Option "ClickButton1" "1"
   Option "VertTwoFingerScroll" "false"
   Option "HorizTwoFingerScroll" "false"
   Option "AccelFactor" "0.0010"
EndSection

Section "Extensions"
    Option         "Composite" "Enable"
EndSection


Cu.
Bloedie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VinzC
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 5098
Location: Dark side of the mood

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.

I've been having a *real* *big* trouble with synaptics drivers >=1.3.0: the pointer behaves like crazy and becomes totally out of control. (Driver coded by women, I guess...) I did *not* have these troubles with synaptics 1.2* . But now, of course, the latter's been rigged off portage... :evil:

When X starts, the pointer moves normally for a couple of seconds then progressively stops responding to my finger's moves. It sometimes moves when I apply a very (but *very*) soft pressure on the touchpad and move my finger. But then when I start to move my finger more rapidly, the pointer seems to get hicups and moves by slow bursts. I need to move my fiiiiiiinnngeeeeeer veeeeeeeeryyyyy sloooooooooowlyyyyyy to have that darn pointer move its bloody ass along my screen!

Clicking: forget it!
Double click: forget it!
Scrolling: ah? it works! (vertically at least)

Here are my settings:

/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-input-touchpad.conf:
Section "InputClass"
   Identifier   "Touchpad0"
   MatchIsTouchpad   "on"
   MatchDevicePath   "/dev/input/event*"
   Driver      "synaptics"
   Option      "TapButton1" "1"
   Option      "VertEdgeScroll" "true"
   Option      "HorizEdgeScroll" "true"
   Option      "RTCornerButton" "3"
   Option      "RBCornerButton" "2"
   Option      "VertTwoFingerScroll" "off"
EndSection

With "VertTwoFingerScroll" "on" it's even worse!

synclient -l:
Parameter settings:
    LeftEdge                = 1759
    RightEdge               = 5289
    TopEdge                 = 1637
    BottomEdge              = 4455
    FingerLow               = 20
    FingerHigh              = 40
    FingerPress             = 60
    MaxTapTime              = 180
    MaxTapMove              = 231
    MaxDoubleTapTime        = 180
    SingleTapTimeout        = 180
    ClickTime               = 100
    FastTaps                = 0
    EmulateMidButtonTime    = 75
    EmulateTwoFingerMinZ    = 29
    EmulateTwoFingerMinW    = 6
    VertScrollDelta         = 105
    HorizScrollDelta        = 105
    VertEdgeScroll          = 1
    HorizEdgeScroll         = 1
    CornerCoasting          = 0
    VertTwoFingerScroll     = 0
    HorizTwoFingerScroll    = 0
    MinSpeed                = 1
    MaxSpeed                = 1.75
    AccelFactor             = 0.001
    TrackstickSpeed         = 40
    EdgeMotionMinZ          = 29
    EdgeMotionMaxZ          = 159
    EdgeMotionMinSpeed      = 1
    EdgeMotionMaxSpeed      = 420
    EdgeMotionUseAlways     = 0
    TouchpadOff             = 0
    LockedDrags             = 0
    LockedDragTimeout       = 5000
    RTCornerButton          = 3
    RBCornerButton          = 2
    LTCornerButton          = 0
    LBCornerButton          = 0
    TapButton1              = 1
    TapButton2              = 0
    TapButton3              = 0
    ClickFinger1            = 1
    ClickFinger2            = 1
    ClickFinger3            = 1
    CircularScrolling       = 0
    CircScrollDelta         = 0.1
    CircScrollTrigger       = 0
    CircularPad             = 0
    PalmDetect              = 0
    PalmMinWidth            = 9
    PalmMinZ                = 199
    CoastingSpeed           = 20
    CoastingFriction        = 50
    PressureMotionMinZ      = 29
    PressureMotionMaxZ      = 159
    PressureMotionMinFactor = 1
    PressureMotionMaxFactor = 1
    GrabEventDevice         = 1
    TapAndDragGesture       = 1
    AreaLeftEdge            = 0
    AreaRightEdge           = 0
    AreaTopEdge             = 0
    AreaBottomEdge          = 0

and log:
egrep -i 'synaptic|touhpad' /var/log/Xorg.0.log:
[  2004.733] (II) config/udev: Adding input device SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad (/dev/input/event6)
[  2004.733] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "evdev touchpad catchall"
[  2004.733] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "touchpad catchall"
[  2004.733] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "Touchpad0"
[  2004.733] (II) LoadModule: "synaptics"
[  2004.733] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/input/synaptics_drv.so
[  2004.733] (II) Module synaptics: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[  2004.746] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: x-axis range 1472 - 5576
[  2004.746] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: y-axis range 1408 - 4684
[  2004.746] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: pressure range 0 - 255
[  2004.746] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: finger width range 0 - 15
[  2004.746] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: buttons: left right
[  2004.755] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: touchpad found
[  2004.755] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: always reports core events
[  2004.759] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad" (type: TOUCHPAD)
[  2004.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) MinSpeed is now constant deceleration 2.5
[  2004.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: MaxSpeed is now 1.75
[  2004.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: AccelFactor is now 0.038
[  2004.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) keeping acceleration scheme 1
[  2004.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration profile 1
[  2004.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration factor: 2.000
[  2004.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration threshold: 4
[  2004.768] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: touchpad found
[  2004.768] (II) config/udev: Adding input device SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad (/dev/input/mouse0)
[  2004.768] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "touchpad catchall"
[  2004.772] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: invalid x-axis range.  defaulting to 1615 - 5685
[  2004.772] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: invalid y-axis range.  defaulting to 1729 - 4171
[  2004.772] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: invalid pressure range.  defaulting to 0 - 256
[  2004.772] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: invalid finger width range.  defaulting to 0 - 16
[  2004.792] (EE) Query no Synaptics: 6003C8
[  2004.792] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: no supported touchpad found
[  2004.792] (EE) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad Unable to query/initialize Synaptics hardware.
[  2004.794] (EE) PreInit returned NULL for "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"
[  2136.463] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: touchpad found

Fortunately I have an external trackball. In a last resort I'll disable the touchpad for it's really going on my nerves.

So if you guys have succeeded in having a Dell XPS Studio 16 touchpad respond to your orders, Id be glad to know what your synclient values are or what you did when you switched from version 1.2 to newer versions.

Thanks a whole bunch in advance.
_________________
Gentoo addict: tomorrow I quit, I promise!... Just one more emerge...
1739!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VoidMage
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 6196

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@VinzC: first, try to do something about that '/dev/input/mouse0' synaptics part
- as I already said, the idea is to use only event* devices:
- quick and dirty is to fix that 50-synaptics.conf (though for the moment any changes there are overwritten on upgrade)
- a more cleaner would probably require something like matching all touchpads first and ignoring them, then in the next block matching event* touchpad nodes and applying settings to them only

It may not help, but should at least clean up that log a bit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VinzC
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 5098
Location: Dark side of the mood

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VoidMage wrote:
@VinzC: first, try to do something about that '/dev/input/mouse0' synaptics part
- as I already said, the idea is to use only event* devices:
- quick and dirty is to fix that 50-synaptics.conf (though for the moment any changes there are overwritten on upgrade)
- a more cleaner would probably require something like matching all touchpads first and ignoring them, then in the next block matching event* touchpad nodes and applying settings to them only

It may not help, but should at least clean up that log a bit.


Thanks. I have just realized there was still a xorg.conf in which I had the keybard and mouse configured. But I have now deleted xorg.conf, unmerged xf86-input-mouse, xf86-input-keyboard, restarted X and the problem persists :(.

ll /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d:
/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d:
total 12
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 179 25 déc 14:28 10-input-keymap.conf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 353 21 mar 18:59 20-input-touchpad.conf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 290 25 déc 15:32 50-input-tablet.conf

10-input-keymap.conf:
# Xorg configuration: keyboard
Section "InputClass"
   Identifier   "Keyboard0"
   Driver      "evdev"
   Option      "xkbModel"   "Dell"
   Option      "xkbLayout"   "be"
   MatchIsKeyboard   "on"
EndSection

20-input-touchpad.conf:
# Xorg configuration: mouse
Section "InputClass"
   Identifier   "Touchpad0"
   MatchIsTouchpad   "on"
   MatchDevicePath   "/dev/input/event*"
   Driver      "synaptics"
   Option      "TapButton1" "1"
   Option      "VertEdgeScroll" "true"
   Option      "HorizEdgeScroll" "true"
   Option      "RTCornerButton" "3"
   Option      "RBCornerButton" "2"
   Option      "VertTwoFingerScroll" "on"
EndSection

50-input-tablet.conf:
Section "InputClass"
   Identifier "Wacom class"
# WALTOP needs a patched kernel driver, that isn't in mainline lk yet,
# so for now just let it fall through and be picked up by evdev instead.
   MatchProduct "Wacom|WALTOP|WACOM"
   MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
   Driver "wacom"
EndSection

qlist -ICv x11-driver:
x11-drivers/radeon-ucode-20110106
x11-drivers/xf86-input-aiptek-1.3.1
x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev-2.6.0
x11-drivers/xf86-input-synaptics-1.3.0
x11-drivers/xf86-input-wacom-0.10.11
x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati-9999
x11-drivers/xf86-video-fbdev-0.4.2
x11-drivers/xf86-video-vesa-2.3.0

qlist -ICv xorg:
x11-base/xorg-drivers-1.9
x11-base/xorg-server-1.9.4
x11-base/xorg-x11-7.4-r1

egrep -i 'synaptic|touhpad' /var/log/Xorg.0.log:
[  8692.759] (II) config/udev: Adding input device SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad (/dev/input/event6)
[  8692.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "evdev touchpad catchall"
[  8692.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "touchpad catchall"
[  8692.759] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "Touchpad0"
[  8692.759] (II) LoadModule: "synaptics"
[  8692.759] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/input/synaptics_drv.so
[  8692.759] (II) Module synaptics: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[  8692.759] (II) Synaptics touchpad driver version 1.3.0
[  8692.774] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: x-axis range 1472 - 5576
[  8692.774] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: y-axis range 1408 - 4684
[  8692.774] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: pressure range 0 - 255
[  8692.774] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: finger width range 0 - 15
[  8692.774] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: buttons: left right
[  8692.783] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: touchpad found
[  8692.783] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: always reports core events
[  8692.788] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad" (type: TOUCHPAD)
[  8692.788] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) MinSpeed is now constant deceleration 2.5
[  8692.788] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: MaxSpeed is now 1.75
[  8692.788] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: AccelFactor is now 0.038
[  8692.788] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) keeping acceleration scheme 1
[  8692.788] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration profile 1
[  8692.788] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration factor: 2.000
[  8692.788] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration threshold: 4
[  8692.796] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: touchpad found
[  8692.796] (II) config/udev: Adding input device SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad (/dev/input/mouse0)
[  8692.796] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "touchpad catchall"
[  8692.796] (II) Synaptics touchpad driver version 1.3.0
[  8692.987] (EE) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad no synaptics event device found
[  8692.991] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: invalid x-axis range.  defaulting to 1615 - 5685
[  8692.991] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: invalid y-axis range.  defaulting to 1729 - 4171
[  8692.991] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: invalid pressure range.  defaulting to 0 - 256
[  8692.991] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: invalid finger width range.  defaulting to 0 - 16
[  8693.011] (EE) Query no Synaptics: 6003C8
[  8693.011] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: no supported touchpad found
[  8693.011] (EE) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad Unable to query/initialize Synaptics hardware.
[  8693.013] (EE) PreInit failed for input device "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"
[  8693.013] (II) UnloadModule: "synaptics"
[  8719.218] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: touchpad found

Nothing changed.
_________________
Gentoo addict: tomorrow I quit, I promise!... Just one more emerge...
1739!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VoidMage
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 6196

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VinzC
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 5098
Location: Dark side of the mood

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VoidMage wrote:
And /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ?

Code:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1099 18 mar 20:08 10-evdev.conf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  127 21 mar 20:52 50-synaptics.conf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  825 21 mar 09:25 50-wacom.conf

/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf:
#
# Catch-all evdev loader for udev-based systems
# We don't simply match on any device since that also adds accelerometers
# and other devices that we don't really want to use. The list below
# matches everything but joysticks.

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev pointer catchall"
        MatchIsPointer "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev keyboard catchall"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev touchpad catchall"
        MatchIsTouchpad "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev tablet catchall"
        MatchIsTablet "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "evdev touchscreen catchall"
        MatchIsTouchscreen "on"
        MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
        Driver "evdev"
EndSection

/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf:
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "touchpad catchall"
        Driver "synaptics"
        MatchIsTouchpad "on"
EndSection

/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-wacom.conf:
Section "InputClass"
   Identifier "Wacom class"
# WALTOP needs a patched kernel driver, that isn't in mainline lk yet,
# so for now just let it fall through and be picked up by evdev instead.
#   MatchProduct "Wacom|WALTOP|WACOM"
   MatchProduct "Wacom|WACOM|Hanwang"
   MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
   Driver "wacom"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
   Identifier "Wacom serial class"
   MatchProduct "Serial Wacom Tablet"
   Driver "wacom"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "Wacom serial class identifiers"
        MatchProduct "WACf|FUJ02e5|FUJ02e7"
        Driver "wacom"
EndSection


# N-Trig Duosense Electromagnetic Digitizer
Section "InputClass"
   Identifier "Wacom N-Trig class"
   MatchProduct "HID 1b96:0001|N-Trig Pen"
   MatchDevicePath "/dev/input/event*"
   Driver "wacom"
   Option "Button2" "3"
EndSection

Why so?
_________________
Gentoo addict: tomorrow I quit, I promise!... Just one more emerge...
1739!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VoidMage
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 6196

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's the 50-synaptics.conf I was talking about.
I'm unsure, if it helps, but at least it should lower warning cont in the log.
Just try to google that blog post about synaptics driver.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VinzC
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 5098
Location: Dark side of the mood

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VoidMage wrote:
Well, that's the 50-synaptics.conf I was talking about.
I'm unsure, if it helps, but at least it should lower warning cont in the log.


Okay, my bad. But I still believed Xorg was no longer using /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ as soon as there was a directory under /etc/ ??? Sort of giving users a hard time for just the sake of it... Well... Sorry, end of rant.

Indeed, adding the matching device search string did get rid of the errors.

egrep -i 'synaptic|touhpad' /var/log/Xorg.20.log:
[  4516.579] (II) config/udev: Adding input device SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad (/dev/input/event6)
[  4516.579] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "evdev touchpad catchall"
[  4516.579] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "touchpad catchall"
[  4516.579] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: Applying InputClass "Touchpad0"
[  4516.579] (II) LoadModule: "synaptics"
[  4516.579] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/input/synaptics_drv.so
[  4516.579] (II) Module synaptics: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[  4516.579] (II) Synaptics touchpad driver version 1.3.0
[  4516.591] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: x-axis range 1472 - 5576
[  4516.591] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: y-axis range 1408 - 4684
[  4516.591] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: pressure range 0 - 255
[  4516.591] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: finger width range 0 - 15
[  4516.591] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: buttons: left right
[  4516.600] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: touchpad found
[  4516.600] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: always reports core events
[  4516.605] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad" (type: TOUCHPAD)
[  4516.605] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) MinSpeed is now constant deceleration 2.5
[  4516.605] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: MaxSpeed is now 1.75
[  4516.605] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: AccelFactor is now 0.038
[  4516.605] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) keeping acceleration scheme 1
[  4516.605] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration profile 1
[  4516.605] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration factor: 2.000
[  4516.605] (**) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: (accel) acceleration threshold: 4
[  4516.617] (--) SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad: touchpad found
[  4516.617] (II) config/udev: Adding input device SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad (/dev/input/mouse0)

But the erratic behaviour is still there. At some time I need to barely touch the surface to move the pointer, others I need to press like crazy...

VoidMage wrote:
Just try to google that blog post about synaptics driver.

Blog post?
_________________
Gentoo addict: tomorrow I quit, I promise!... Just one more emerge...
1739!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VinzC
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 5098
Location: Dark side of the mood

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: SOLVED! Yeeehaaaaa! Reply with quote

After a couple of try/catch, I've finally made my touchpad work the way I wanted. The problem mainly lied in one value: EmulateTwoFingerMinW. The latter is set to 6 by default but 7 in my case did help quite a bit. Here are the values I changed from the defaults:

synclient:
     FingerHigh              = 29
     FingerPress             = 255
     MaxTapTime              = 180
-    MaxTapMove              = 231
+    MaxTapMove              = 131
     MaxDoubleTapTime        = 180
     SingleTapTimeout        = 180
     ClickTime               = 100
     FastTaps                = 0
     EmulateMidButtonTime    = 75
-    EmulateTwoFingerMinZ    = 29
-    EmulateTwoFingerMinW    = 6
+    EmulateTwoFingerMinZ    = 24
+    EmulateTwoFingerMinW    = 7
     VertScrollDelta         = 105
     HorizScrollDelta        = 105
     VertEdgeScroll          = 1

These value were set dynamically with synclient. Now I'm going to place them in synaptics configuration file. The good side is now I can even (almost) use TwoFinger scrolling!
_________________
Gentoo addict: tomorrow I quit, I promise!... Just one more emerge...
1739!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Kernel & Hardware All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum