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colag
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 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: What's the benifit of using gentoo? |
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What's the benifit of using gentoo?
What's special about gentoo over other linux distrobution?
It just installs packages from source. So what else?
What can i learn/know more from using gentoo.
Am i missing something?
NOTE: I'm using gentoo, but i can't get anything extra or something different than other linux distrobution except the installing from source issue. |
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Hypnos
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Compiling from source allows you to change compile-time features or apply your own patches to change functionality.
Gentoo makes this easy with USE flags and overlays. This is why I use Gentoo.
If you are happy with other distributions as they are delivered to you, then you probably have nothing to gain by using Gentoo.
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colag
Tux's lil' helper
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Hypnos wrote: | Compiling from source allows you to change compile-time features or apply your own patches to change functionality.
Gentoo makes this easy with USE flags and overlays. This is why I use Gentoo.
If you are happy with other distributions as they are delivered to you, then you probably have nothing to gain by using Gentoo. |
If you use gentoo way or USE flags, then you are not actually configuring in your way. Gentoo is doing everything for you.
Gentoo is configuring packages for you. So it's not your customization, rather gentoo's built-in package. |
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anb.clarke
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by anb.clarke on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:25 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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disi
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Installation goes for me like this:
0. what architecture do I want to install on?
1. do I use GPT or DOS partitions or rather LVM or ZFS or some RAID setup or a combination of these?!?
2. what kernel do I use? Do I go for some Linux flavour or rather BSD or XBOX?
3. what filesystem might I use?!?
4. what bootloader...
5. what init system might I use...
6. what system logger, cron daemon etc.
6. actual this all interconnects and is dependend on each other
7. once you have something put together, you read of something much cooler to toy with and the cycle begings again...
Usually my Gentoo boxes are rock solid and more reliable that other distros. This might be not true, though. Because if I change something on Gentoo I do not expect it to work and it is easy for me to fix it, since I know my system and know what I changed. In other distributions the underlying OS is more like the big unknown and if something breaks you rely on other people to fix it...
Once you got all this freedom and then swap to other distributions, most people come back after a while. 
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colag
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| anb.clarke wrote: | Compare Crunchbang and Gentoo and i think you'll get to an answer..
Crunchbang :: Fast, easy to use and maintain. But deb packages are built for you = less adaptable/harder to fix on your own
Gentoo :: Fast, easy to use and maintain. But Portage/Overlays are dynamically flexible = more adaptable/easier to fix on your own
If you want to use generic software i'd go with Crunchbang (or a similar alternative).
If after use Portage for a while no advantages seem apparent then i'd suggest one of three things is occuring:
A : Your not using portage/overlays to full effect.
B : You haven't yet written your first ebuild.
C : You haven't yet run ufed.
Just a opinion. :wink: |
What is ufed? |
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Hypnos
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| colag wrote: | If you use gentoo way or USE flags, then you are not actually configuring in your way. Gentoo is doing everything for you.
Gentoo is configuring packages for you. So it's not your customization, rather gentoo's built-in package. |
First, that's not true, because if I don't like how the Gentoo devs do something for some package, I can put my own ebuild in an overlay. Second, if the developers do include the flexibility I need, and it's as simple as just changing some USE flags, isn't that good? The developers do all the work, and I get all the benefit!
I don't know of any binary distribution that makes it so easy to change things through custom compilations, and then rebuild other packages to resolve inconsistencies (e.g., revdep-rebuild).
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anb.clarke
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by anb.clarke on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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colag
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Hypnos wrote: | | colag wrote: | If you use gentoo way or USE flags, then you are not actually configuring in your way. Gentoo is doing everything for you.
Gentoo is configuring packages for you. So it's not your customization, rather gentoo's built-in package. |
First, that's not true, because if I don't like how the Gentoo devs do something for some package, I can put my own ebuild in an overlay. Second, if the developers do include the flexibility I need, and it's as simple as just changing some USE flags, isn't that good? The developers do all the work, and I get all the benefit!
I don't know of any binary distribution that makes it so easy to change things through custom compilations, and then rebuild other packages to resolve inconsistencies (e.g., revdep-rebuild). |
Ok, I understand.
But if you use your own .ebuild then would you get gentoo support for that package? |
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anb.clarke
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Hypnos
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| colag wrote: | | But if you use your own .ebuild then would you get gentoo support for that package? |
No. However, if it's an important modification or new ebuild, I submit it to the Gentoo devs on Bugzilla.
For example, I'm the proxy maintainer for x11-misc/ktsuss. (bug #401123)
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disi
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Hypnos wrote: | | colag wrote: | | But if you use your own .ebuild then would you get gentoo support for that package? |
No. However, if it's an important modification or new ebuild, I submit it to the Gentoo devs on Bugzilla.
For example, I'm the proxy maintainer for x11-misc/ktsuss. (bug #401123) |
I push from time to time this one: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=396253
But it never makes it into portage as it looks like 
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Hypnos
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:05 am Post subject: |
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I guess beandog is too busy to deal with it. I think the devs are generally good at maintaining ebuilds for software that's important to many users (e.g., core system, desktop environments), and then everything else depends on personal interest and free time.
To get more focused support, you can maintain your own overlay (by yourself or with friends using a VCS), or you can interact with the maintainers of the Gentoo overlays.
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fpemud
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: |
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To my experience, linux distro which provides compiled package like ubuntu is good, but there's must be some seldom case you must compile something yourself.
This is really difficult, especially I must solve the dependency myself. The denpendency is a big number, generally over ten packages.
In gentoo, portage supports comilation, so when I must compile something, I could write ebuild.
I could only write how to compile my package, and the dependency can be automatically done by portage. |
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colag
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: What's the basic difference between Gentoo and Slackware? |
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Both install packages from source.
What's the basic difference between Gentoo and Slackware? |
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gerard27
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Judging by your posts I think you really ought to read Gentoo docs.
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml?desc=1
The handbook is not enough.
Gerard.
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To install Gentoo I use sysrescuecd.Based on Gentoo,has firefox to browse Gentoo docs and mc to browse (and edit) files.
The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download |
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xaviermiller
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
Please don't start new topics for the same thing...
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Kind regards,
Xavier Miller |
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fpemud
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: |
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When I use fedora and ubuntu, there're a lot of packages which I think I will never use. But there is always some strange dependency.
The disk space is not a issue, but I feel uncomfortable.
If I want to remove the deps, the only way is modify the compile option of packages.
But in binary distro there's no way to do this.
I heared about LFS and moved to it and failed, LFS is too difficult.
Then fortunately I found gentoo is a kind of automated LFS. So I am using gentoo.
I think my system is clear in gentoo, I know how every package and lib works for me. |
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colag
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| XavierMiller wrote: | Hello,
Please don't start new topics for the same thing... |
What same thing? |
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fpemud
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:40 am Post subject: |
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In another point of view, linux provides user choice, but windows doesn't.
To me it is the core value of open source.
distro like ubuntu or fedora provides choice on installation and configuration.
gentoo provides more choice, which is compilation options.
I think currently no system provides more choice than gentoo. |
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xaviermiller
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Semantically, your questions are different. But they are the same: "Is Gentoo for me?".
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disi
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Hypnos wrote: |
I guess beandog is too busy to deal with it. I think the devs are generally good at maintaining ebuilds for software that's important to many users (e.g., core system, desktop environments), and then everything else depends on personal interest and free time.
To get more focused support, you can maintain your own overlay (by yourself or with friends using a VCS), or you can interact with the maintainers of the Gentoo overlays. |
Thanks, I will certainly have a look but I don't think overlays are the answer to broken packages in portage...
http://znurt.org/search.php?search=&q=makemkv&x=0&y=0
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John R. Graham
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Hypnos wrote: | | colag wrote: | If you use gentoo way or USE flags, then you are not actually configuring in your way. Gentoo is doing everything for you.
Gentoo is configuring packages for you. So it's not your customization, rather gentoo's built-in package. |
First, that's not true, because if I don't like how the Gentoo devs do something for some package, I can put my own ebuild in an overlay. Second, if the developers do include the flexibility I need, and it's as simple as just changing some USE flags, isn't that good? The developers do all the work, and I get all the benefit! |
It's not, "Just not true," only because you can hack the ebuild. It's also just not true because the USE flag mechanism is most typically used to directly expose the package's build options. When you make a USE flag change, you're selecting from the configurability the package author exposed. Gentoo is just the friendly middleman, making it easy.
- John
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John R. Graham
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| colag wrote: | Both install packages from source.
What's the basic difference between Gentoo and Slackware? |
Slackware is a binary distribution: installing a package in Slackware does not compile it from source. And that is at least one basic difference between Gentoo and Slackware:- Gentoo: Source-based distribution. Focuses on configurability, customizability, and being up to date.
- Slackware: binary distribution. Focuses on stability.
The underlying driving philosophy behind both distributions is available on their respective web pages. Take a gander. 
- John
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Last edited by John R. Graham on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Apheus
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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I switched from Fedora to Gentoo after one Fedora upgrade left too many things broken, and my main reasons for staying with Gentoo are:
1. Rolling release. Fedora upgrades were officially unsupported, and I do not like reinstalling and -customizing
2. Stability. Gentoo is rather conservative on when version x of software y enters the "declared to be stable"-stage. Unlike Fedora, but without being as extremely old as Debian stable (Firefox 3.5.x? wtf?)
3. Quality of documentation. At least in 2008. Some documentation might be outdated by now, since the hal-udev- and openrc move. But this will be sorted out.
When I switched to Gentoo I did not know about Arch Linux, or Debian testing. The OpenSuSE tumbleweed repo was not yet around.
You see, the source- and compiling thing is not one of my main reasons. I do not know if I would miss this flexibility.
Also, in another thread I read the statement "With Gentoo, everything just makes sense." And this is true. The organization of services, configuration files and everything is well thought and to-the-point. |
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