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broeman
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 101
Location: Denmark, EUNATOUN
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 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| SQLBoy wrote: |
This rarely works for Wine/WineX because just like Windows, WineX has a registry and if the application can't find its registry settings, then it usually will not run. |
The registry settings can be found in the .wine(x) directory ... just copy them over to the other file.
I don't get the comment on that Linux is seen by the game-industry as a geek-only platform. Why would they release Quake, Unreal, American Army, among many game-servers to Linux if they believed there were no gamers on the platform (you know that real geeks don't play don't you ;p). While many games are postponed (just like the Mac-versions) on the Linux platform, the best of them end on it at a time. Too bad Loki is not there to port SimCity 4+RH to Linux, hopefully LGP or someone on icculus will do it.
Like many Linux users said from the beginning (inclusive me), the Wine project will end in documenting the existence of windows, just like the other projects: VICE, UAE, MAME among many others do for their platforms.
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SQLBoy
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Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you the CVS version of WineX doesn't work for crap. This is mainly due to the lack of copy protection code. I.E. games that require the CD to be in the drive when you play and check the CD in a way that verifies its authenticity. Thats why you can't play BF1942 or SimCity 4. Both of them use that code. You can play them pretty well with WineX 3.1 but BF1942 eats like a gig of ram and SimCity 4 only supports the software renderer.
Pretty much any recent EA game is going to use that copy protection code..
| sgaap wrote: | | Still, if someone can show me proof (and not the ratings on transgamings site) that it's just click and run with most major d3d games on the binary version of wine then I am happy to adjust my views on the working of wine. |
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dvNuLL
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Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 56
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:05 pm Post subject: Ex WineX Subscriber |
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Okay I used to be a Transgaming subscriber. I cancelled my subscriptions for a few reasons.
Reason 1:
The SOLE Windows game that I play is not supported WELL ENOUGH by Wine/WineX that I cannot justify spending the money. That Game is Counter-Strike and while it does play there is noticable audio lag and issues with voicecom. Since I play competitive counter-strike this is not acceptable and i DO run Windows for CS and CS only.
Reason 2:
The issues transgaming had with Gentoo and Debian. Transgaming threatened to change the license of winex-cvs ( oddly enough the cvs server is hosted on sourceforge ). Also AFAIK transgaming does NOT contribute any code back into the WineX tree.
Reason 3:
They broke many promises. They promised not to interfere with native ports for Linux. But then they announced support for games which had linux development going on and effectively made the developer axe the Linux product. SImilarly they also promised to contribute code back when they hit 20,000 subscribers. But now they have removed ALL MENTION OF that promise from their site.
Dont get me wrong, I used to play Diablo2, JKII etc on WineX on my Linux box when i was a subscriber. I did that even though I had an extra Windows Machine to play my games on. I wanted to support all forms of game development for my platform of choice - Linux. I have purchased every game released by Loki and if i still had a job I would buy every game released by LGP as well. I would rather my money go to someone who develops for my preferred platform as opposed to someone who does not.
Codeweavers does contribute code back into the LGPL wine tree as does Lindows as well.
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Peaceable Frood
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Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 338
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Reason 3:
They broke many promises. They promised not to interfere with native ports for Linux. But then they announced support for games which had linux development going on and effectively made the developer axe the Linux product. SImilarly they also promised to contribute code back when they hit 20,000 subscribers. But now they have removed ALL MENTION OF that promise from their site.
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Just out curiosity, I'm not a WineX subscriber but which game did they interfere with. If it's true we should be telling WineX subscribers of this.
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MadEgg
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Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 678
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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In contrary of what many are saying here, they actually DID do a lot of work.
I've found lots of games that work with WineX but don't with Wine(at least the one before the newest with improved dx8 support, haven't tried that).
Simcity4 works like a charm. BF1942 works like a charm. Commandos 2 works 100% perfect. Starcraft works like a charm including battle.net. Warcraft III works like a charm(I didn't get it to work using Wine, though many have so not a real + for WineX).
These games already make up for the fiver a month for me. There are other games that also work with it but already did using Wine, like Diablo II and Soldier of Fortune II.
Another big pro imo is the Point2Play interface; it makes it very easy configuring games separately, keeping their registries apart and easily changing settings.
So as far as I'm concerded, it's well worth the money although I will have to try the new Wine soon.
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zakk
l33t
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 614
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Peaceable Frood wrote: |
Just out curiosity, I'm not a WineX subscriber but which game did they interfere with. If it's true we should be telling WineX subscribers of this. |
I can name one that I am allowed to name, Sacrifice. It is the last item mentioned in the Boycott WineX page. A native Linux port was going to happen, but then it stopped due to the existence of a questionable ability to play it with windows emulation software. On the list of games on transgaming's page they list a number of games which have native ports (either from open source, or commercially). There still exist quite a few people who are entirely unaware of native ports of UT, Quake 3, et cetera, and think that windows emulation is the only way |
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Red Nalie
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Joined: 24 Mar 2003
Posts: 484
Location: Den Helder - The Netherlands - Europe - Earth - Milky Way - Universe
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| MadEgg wrote: | ...
Simcity4 works like a charm. BF1942 works like a charm. Commandos 2 works 100% perfect. Starcraft works like a charm including battle.net. Warcraft III works like a charm(I didn't get it to work using Wine, though many have so not a real + for WineX)... |
BF1942 works like a charm?
Since when, shit, I've played that game for months, and tried it on the latest WineX version for a while (I "was" a subscriber, but I decided not to continue).
Did I miss something here  , since the only experience I had with BF1942 and WineX would be 10fps and render-errors, like the ground having black stripes and such.
(and yes, I'm annoyed!  )
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MadEgg
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Joined: 06 Jun 2002
Posts: 678
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Red Nalie wrote: | | MadEgg wrote: | ...
Simcity4 works like a charm. BF1942 works like a charm. Commandos 2 works 100% perfect. Starcraft works like a charm including battle.net. Warcraft III works like a charm(I didn't get it to work using Wine, though many have so not a real + for WineX)... |
BF1942 works like a charm?
Since when, shit, I've played that game for months, and tried it on the latest WineX version for a while (I "was" a subscriber, but I decided not to continue).
Did I miss something here , since the only experience I had with BF1942 and WineX would be 10fps and render-errors, like the ground having black stripes and such.
(and yes, I'm annoyed! ) |
It works good here; the only problem is the extremely long loading-times, but when I finally enter the game it runs fine. Haven't seen any of the things you mention; I get about 35 fps, not much but playable.
I'm using WineX 3.1 to run it and it works satisfactory.
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broeman
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 101
Location: Denmark, EUNATOUN
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| MadEgg wrote: |
Simcity4 works like a charm. |
Well, then I am doing something really wrong ... I own a SimCity 4 CD and it only "works" in WineX. While the game loads and everything, when I try to get a city above 5000 sims, the game seg faults (doesn't matter if it is hardware or software). I even bought 1GB RAM just to make sure that it could work on Linux ... but it didn't help (at least it draws the roads now ... it didn't in WineX 3 beta). Could it be because I use AMD?
But saying this, it is not my point ... Loki made a native port of SimCity 3000 Deluxe, and that was my hope that some simular company/community would do the same with SimCity 4 Deluxe (at least within a year or two ).
I don't give a damn about tinkering with Wine/WineX anymore ... I went back to dualboot ... it requires only reboot, and pressing the game ... I can live with the downtime on my webserver, it is not like I can be contacted anyway 
CS in WineX? I didn't really check the FPS when I did it once ... but it runs pretty nice in Wine (without the X) ... I played with my friends on LAN, and I still kicked their a$$ (remember that Linux has higher priority on a network than Windows, so you have lower lag-time  )
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SQLBoy
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Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the developer ever issued a formal 'We are doing a linux port' or even started work on a Linux port. Some developer in the forums was talking about it but noone really knows the REAL reason why they stopped entertaining the idea. My believe is that the money spent on the coding and supporting the port would not be worth the time. This was some time ago too when Linux gaming was really in the shitter. Its funny how the boycott people are saying WineX is killing ports but a. Have not offical statement from a developer and b. the number of linux ports being released is at an all time high and keeps getting higher.
| zakk wrote: |
I can name one that I am allowed to name, Sacrifice. It is the last item mentioned in the Boycott WineX page. A native Linux port was going to happen, but then it stopped due to the existence of a questionable ability to play it with windows emulation software. On the list of games on transgaming's page they list a number of games which have native ports (either from open source, or commercially). There still exist quite a few people who are entirely unaware of native ports of UT, Quake 3, et cetera, and think that windows emulation is the only way |
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SQLBoy
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Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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It works good for me as welll. Long load times but my fps is fine. I had to tweak the config a little as well.
| Red Nalie wrote: |
BF1942 works like a charm?
Since when, shit, I've played that game for months, and tried it on the latest WineX version for a while (I "was" a subscriber, but I decided not to continue).
Did I miss something here , since the only experience I had with BF1942 and WineX would be 10fps and render-errors, like the ground having black stripes and such.
(and yes, I'm annoyed! ) |
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zakk
l33t
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 614
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| SQLBoy wrote: | I don't think the developer ever issued a formal 'We are doing a linux port' or even started work on a Linux port. Some developer in the forums was talking about it but noone really knows the REAL reason why they stopped entertaining the idea. My believe is that the money spent on the coding and supporting the port would not be worth the time. This was some time ago too when Linux gaming was really in the shitter. Its funny how the boycott people are saying WineX is killing ports but a. Have not offical statement from a developer and b. the number of linux ports being released is at an all time high and keeps getting higher.
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You misunderstood, I know this port was canned, officially, which is why it is on that boycott page. The TuxGames/LGP CEO informed me of this. (I run timedoctor.org) You can of course believe whatever you want to believe, but that page is the one thing on timedoctor.org which isn't a joke. Linux gaming is still in the shitter. It just happens that the people who make Linux gaming happen these days are the wiser for it, and can deal with it better. |
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SQLBoy
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Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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My question is, was the port ever officially started? Did money change hands? Was code written? Also, how long after its windows release was this? I mean, that game is butt old and it wasn't a particulary good game in the first place. Whats better for linux gaming, 1 old native version or 200 playable titles?
WineX is great for Linux right now because its the only commerical linux gaming product that gives the game industy a somewhat accurate count of how many linux gamers are out there, what games they like (from the voting system), and whats important to us. The game industy decides to do ports purely on profits and Transgaming could have an accurate gauge of the Linux community. By boycotting WineX you have essentially removed yourself from the tally of Linux gamers.
Also, you should update your boycott FAQ. It implies that Transgaming has never submitted code back to Wine but the Wine change logs have many submissions from Transgaming.
| zakk wrote: | | You misunderstood, I know this port was canned, officially, which is why it is on that boycott page. The TuxGames/LGP CEO informed me of this. (I run timedoctor.org) You can of course believe whatever you want to believe, but that page is the one thing on timedoctor.org which isn't a joke. Linux gaming is still in the shitter. It just happens that the people who make Linux gaming happen these days are the wiser for it, and can deal with it better. |
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sgaap
l33t
Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 754
Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
This is mainly due to the lack of copy protection code. I.E. games that require the CD to be in the drive when you play and check the CD in a way that verifies its authenticity. Thats why you can't play BF1942 or SimCity 4. Both of them use that code. You can play them pretty well with WineX 3.1 but BF1942 eats like a gig of ram and SimCity 4 only supports the software renderer.
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Ah, so the fact that 99% of my d3d games doesnt work with winex is all because of this, can't really believe that.
I use no-cd patches for all the games I tried and looked at the output of strace and/or gdb when encountering trouble, winex never bailed out because it couldn't find files or access the cdrom
The only thing I can imagine is that winex in binary form differs heavily from the cvs and that they have added more extra stuff to get it work, maybe one of these days I'll try a binary version from transgaming, just to check if there really is a difference.
| Quote: |
Warcraft III works like a charm(I didn't get it to work using Wine, though many have so not a real + for WineX).
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Warcraft 3 is just using opengl, I had no problem getting it to run with normal wine
| Quote: |
Whats better for linux gaming, 1 old native version or 200 playable titles?
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As a temporary extra winex wpould suffice, but not as an equivalent for real native ports like transgaming states.
As for now it is: a rising amount of native games and only a few crappy playable windows d3d (because this all revoles about direct3d games, not opengl, those still work fine with wine) titles with winex...
If I could really play my d3d games with winex then I still would have disliked transgamings filosophy, but I would probably have paid for winex because I had no choice...
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SQLBoy
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Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| sgaap wrote: | Ah, so the fact that 99% of my d3d games doesnt work with winex is all because of this, can't really believe that.
I use no-cd patches for all the games I tried and looked at the output of strace and/or gdb when encountering trouble, winex never bailed out because it couldn't find files or access the cdrom |
I don't remember mentioning your other games. As stated, I only know about why Simcity 4 and BF1942 were not working for you using the CVS version.
The difference between WineX commerical and WineX CVS are:
CVS is old and not often updated. The main development CVS is in house.
WineX commerical ships with Install Shield code.
WineX commercial ships with a native MSVCRT Runtime library (c) M$
WineX commercial ships with the copy protection code which many modern games need to play
There may be others, thats the stuff i found mentioned in the license on their site. |
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neighborlee
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| SQLBoy wrote: | My question is, was the port ever officially started? Did money change hands? Was code written? Also, how long after its windows release was this? I mean, that game is butt old and it wasn't a particulary good game in the first place. Whats better for linux gaming, 1 old native version or 200 playable titles?
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playable?..you must be joking..name those that are playable on 'every' level and JUST as stable as their windows counterparts in EVERY area including netplay etc.etc.etc....however the case is still MOOT because of transgamings 'deceit' and you know very well what I mean...
| Quote: |
WineX is great for Linux right now because its the only commerical linux gaming product that gives the game industy a somewhat accurate count of how many linux gamers are out there, what games they like (from the voting system), and whats important to us. The game industy decides to do ports purely on profits and Transgaming could have an accurate gauge of the Linux community. By boycotting WineX you have essentially removed yourself from the tally of Linux gamers. |
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ah bbbbbbbbbbs..;=-)...we get PLENTY of 'counts' by gamers 'using' NATIVE GAME IN LINUX......we vote with our pocket book and our 'brains' by sending clear signal that we will only use native linux games..and t rust me there are TONS of them out there right now and SEVERAL are of commercial quality including neverwinter nights and savage and UT2003 and Americas Army and others ....
| Quote: |
Also, you should update your boycott FAQ. It implies that Transgaming has never submitted code back to Wine but the Wine change logs have many submissions from Transgaming. |
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oh they did submit 'some' stuff...before they removed the promise about their subscriber count ...and also before they 'decided' to endorse it seems only windows and mac gaming by teaming up with aspyr for 'spyhunter'...so you see more deceit and your hard earned linux dollars 'working for you'..NOT ...just when you though it was safe to go back in the water LOL...
cya
lee
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zakk
l33t
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 614
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| SQLBoy wrote: | My question is, was the port ever officially started? Did money change hands? Was code written? Also, how long after its windows release was this? I mean, that game is butt old and it wasn't a particulary good game in the first place. Whats better for linux gaming, 1 old native version or 200 playable titles?
WineX is great for Linux right now because its the only commerical linux gaming product that gives the game industy a somewhat accurate count of how many linux gamers are out there, what games they like (from the voting system), and whats important to us. The game industy decides to do ports purely on profits and Transgaming could have an accurate gauge of the Linux community. By boycotting WineX you have essentially removed yourself from the tally of Linux gamers.
Also, you should update your boycott FAQ. It implies that Transgaming has never submitted code back to Wine but the Wine change logs have many submissions from Transgaming.
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The sacrifice port was cancelled a long time ago, when the game was still relevant. The point of the thing is, that at least one port has been cancelled because of the ability to emulate windows to whatever extent. You can take that however you want, to me it says that Linux gaming doesn't exist if it has windows emulation as it's strong point. I do not know one game developer (and I know several) who cares about transgaming, or sees it as helping Linux. I care about it only because I believe it is hurting Linux having a chance at existing in the commercial gaming sector.
To the best of my knowledge TG has only submitted significant chunks of code to ReWind, not Wine. The only commercial Linux gaming that exists is from LinuxGamePublishing and developers who hire people like Ryan Gordon, and Timothee Besset to port games, or do it on their own (BioWare). Windows emulation did not do much to increase the visibility of OS/2 users in the commercial sector, nor will it do much to increase the visibility of Linux users who want games. If you think Epic, iD, s2games, and other companies give us native ports because TransGaming popularizes and gives Linux Gamers a voice, then you are wrong. The game industry does not always decide to do ports purely on profit, and any statement to that effect is pure fiction. However the game industry at large does not care about Linux Gaming until there are Linux Game Sales from companies like LinuxGamePublishing that are significant enough to merit native ports on major titles, currently any ports are bought (LGP), or charity (iD, epic, s2, bioware). Windows sales of games towards windows emulation will never impact Linux Gaming in the eye of companies like EA. While TransGaming may be able to even do native ports when they recieve code from some companies, it will never be in it's best interest to do so. They have popularized Windows Emulation and will continue to do what they can to keep it popular. |
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SQLBoy
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Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| neighborlee wrote: |
playable?..you must be joking..name those that are playable on 'every' level and JUST as stable as their windows counterparts in EVERY area including netplay etc.etc.etc....however the case is still MOOT because of transgamings 'deceit' and you know very well what I mean... |
Actually, I dont know what 'deceit' your talking about. My license with them says they are selling me a version of Wine for gaming and so far they have done that. I don't have that many games. I usually look in the WineX list and find stuff off the $10 shelf I can actually play. I have played to completion:
Baldur's Gate II
Deus Ex
Homeworld Cataclysm
SOFII
I play also bf1942 maybe onces or twice a week, and Simcity 4 even more. I actually never got into Sacrifice but I've seen it played plenty of times, I wouldn't call it a Deus Ex though. There is 55 games ranked a 4 or above in the database which pretty much means you have a sure thing. No problems. 3 and below means that you might take a massive frame hit, something is broken, or there are some bugs. 2 and below usually dont' run or barely run and might take some work to get installed. The problem is that they hardly ever do regression testing so like HW Cataclysm is a 2 or something and I played the game from start to finish with out any problems.
I never said WineX is perfect. It has some serious problems like most software based on Wine.
| neighborlee wrote: |
ah bbbbbbbbbbs..;=-)...we get PLENTY of 'counts' by gamers 'using' NATIVE GAME IN LINUX......we vote with our pocket book and our 'brains' by sending clear signal that we will only use native linux games..and t rust me there are TONS of them out there right now and SEVERAL are of commercial quality including neverwinter nights and savage and UT2003 and Americas Army and others .... |
And we do this how? I mean, say a game comes out that ships both Windows and Linux, say in the case of UT2003. How does Epic know they made a Linux sale? How do they accurately gauge linux usage or sales?
The Transgaming voting system is an excellent demographic tool and that market research is really valuable to a company thinking about doing a port. Just tally up the last years votes and you can see a. the most popular genra amoung Linux users, the most popular games, the most important features (graphics,sound,speed,stablilty) etc, as well as the stuff we despise. Along with our Zip Code, they can do even more demographics and determine where the highest concentration of Linux users are and use targeted advertising on Radio/TV/Billboards/Mags in that area to push Linux products. That is what I mean about being counted as a Linux user.
| neighborlee wrote: | | oh they did submit 'some' stuff...before they removed the promise about their subscriber count ...and also before they 'decided' to endorse it seems only windows and mac gaming by teaming up with aspyr for 'spyhunter'...so you see more deceit and your hard earned linux dollars 'working for you'..NOT ...just when you though it was safe to go back in the water LOL... |
A. has it occured to you that they were HIRED to do a Mac port? When you are hired to do a mac port, you don't make a linux port. Thats like asking to for a stone house and getting a straw hut. Transgaming is a game porting company. People hire them to do ports and pay them to complete a product. They just can't go off on their own and bust out a Linux port as well.
B. These are direct from the Wine changelog from now back to May 15, 2003.
* dlls/wininet/http.c: David Hammerton <david@transgaming.com>
Added support for http-POST (well, any kind of http request that sends data in the lpOptional field).
* graphics/x11drv/xfont.c: Ove Kaaven <ovek@transgaming.com>
Fixed a memory allocation/corruption bug when growing the font cache.
David Hammerton <david@transgaming.com>
- implemented support for https protocol
- fixes to the http protocol
Ove Kaaven <ovek@transgaming.com>
Preliminary support for COM apartments.
Ove Kaaven <ovek@transgaming.com>
DCOM IDL file based on the DCOM specification.
Ove Kaaven <ovek@transgaming.com>
Initial support for RPC call failures, by catching RPC server
exceptions and returning simple failure packets, and throwing
exceptions on the client side when unmarshalling the failure packet.
Ove Kaaven <ovek@transgaming.com>
For RPC servers, don't deallocate the RPC request packet before the
RPC reply packet is sent, in case marshalling the reply needs any of
the request data.
Ove Kaaven <ovek@transgaming.com>
Added semi-stub for NdrProxyErrorHandler.
Fixed a case of potential stack trashing.
* dlls/oleaut32/oleaut.c: Ove Kaaven <ovek@transgaming.com>
Handle requests for CLSID_PSDispatch.
Apparently there are 1 or 2 people at Transgaming actively submitting patches. I hope you update your FAQ to reflect this. |
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neighborlee
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:34 pm Post subject: native is better. |
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| Quote: |
Actually, I dont know what 'deceit' your talking about. My license with them says they are selling me a version of Wine for gaming and so far they have done that. I don't have that many games. I usually look in the WineX list and find stuff off the $10 shelf I can actually play. I have played to completion: |
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okay let me spell it out for you..aspyr/transgaming teamup to bring you spyhunter for 'pc & mac'...if that dosesn't bother you then you dont use linux as much as you claim or you are one of those fence sitters...either way it screems of being one two sided with 'linux users' being shafted once again...from a company ( transgaming) that supposedly is 'bringing us gaming on linux'..yeah right I say more power to linuxgamepublishing.com and kuds to nwn.bioware.com and www.s2games.com....you of course may do as you wish its a free country but I tend to support companies that support us natively not in emulation which only spurs on more m$ games and gives no 'reason' to companies producing games to make them crossplatform IF they just run 'okay' in a winex.
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And we do this how? I mean, say a game comes out that ships both Windows and Linux, say in the case of UT2003. How does Epic know they made a Linux sale? How do they accurately gauge linux usage or sales? |
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you can email them and let them know &/or it shows up in the netcode and in the forums ....
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B. These are direct from the Wine changelog from now back to May 15, 2003.
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doesn't matter they promised to open the source when they hit 20000 subscribers and that was removed from their site..and besides...what message are you sending by accepting running game a/b/c or d via winex ?..your accepting windows standards and I find it hard to believe thats your goal.
Did you also consider the support..or lack thereof that TheSims has with winex...you can't play the expanion packs but they fail to mention that. I also note to you that 'mable blast' is mentioned on their site and is very misleading to someone that doens't realize its 'native' to linux.
to me thats enough proof of the 'direction' winex is going...if its enough for you fine..use it but I tend to prefer native games that send strong signals to developers.
thx
lee
-==[/code]
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SQLBoy
Guru
Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:45 am Post subject: Re: native is better. |
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| neighborlee wrote: | | okay let me spell it out for you..aspyr/transgaming teamup to bring you spyhunter for 'pc & mac'...if that dosesn't bother you then you dont use linux as much as you claim or you are one of those fence sitters...either way it screems of being one two sided with 'linux users' being shafted once again...from a company ( transgaming) that supposedly is 'bringing us gaming on linux'..yeah right I say more power to linuxgamepublishing.com and kuds to nwn.bioware.com and www.s2games.com....you of course may do as you wish its a free country but I tend to support companies that support us natively not in emulation which only spurs on more m$ games and gives no 'reason' to companies producing games to make them crossplatform IF they just run 'okay' in a winex. |
Why would Transgaming taking a contract to do a Mac port bother me? I have more important things to dwell on than that. Software companies take coding contracts everyday for all kinds of different platforms. Does it bother you Bioware is not releasing KOTR for Linux but only Win/Xbox?! OMFG the sky is falling.
Also, most games are pretty much cross platform from the start. The bulk of game development is content which is cross platform by nature. Pretty much all gaming engines have abstracted the major layers like graphics, sound, etc because they have code paths to other platforms, mainly consoles, but also slower PCs. So, its not the fact that the code is not cross platform, its the fact that there is no data suggesting that a Linux code path would be profitable. Contrary to popular belief, the poeple who make those decisions are not trolling their forums looking for Linux users.
| neighborlee wrote: | | you can email them and let them know &/or it shows up in the netcode and in the forums .... |
Inaccurate and incomplete. When someone posts "I am using linux" in the forums, then the marketing people tally that up or something? Err, wrong. To gauge demand for a Linux port, you need market research and Transgaming is doing that by allowing users to vote. At least with the voting system you get a real number that represents the minium number of Linux users out there and what games they like. Thats valuable to companies who are writing up a development plan that includes a Linux port.
| neighborlee wrote: |
doesn't matter they promised to open the source when they hit 20000 subscribers and that was removed from their site..and besides...what message are you sending by accepting running game a/b/c or d via winex ?..your accepting windows standards and I find it hard to believe thats your goal. |
Uhh, you caught me, I am accepting Windows standards. I don't even know what 'Windows standards' are. I'm not really that big into the whole anti-microsoft pro Linux thing zealot thing. My OS is Linux and its simply a tool for work, I don't see it as a way of life or that I need to hate MS to be a Linux user.What do you mean that Transgaming giving code back doesn't matter?!? Its obviously important enough for you to mention it in 2 different places. From your FAQ:
TransGaming writes incredibly enthusiastic pieces of propaganda which are mostly discussing software they did not write. The LGPL wine (the original codebase) has been developed for 9+ years, but TransGaming forked their version very recently, and does not contribute code back.
TransGaming once promised to give back code to what was Wine, before it changed to the LGPL license. After it changed, they removed all mention of giving back code from their website.
Note that other companies, like Lindows, and Codeweavers _are_ giving back code, and being good open source citizens.
I'm not trying to make an enemy here. We're both Linux users and gamers. I'm simply suggesting that you update your FAQ with the correct information. |
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zakk
l33t
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 614
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:18 am Post subject: Re: native is better. |
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| SQLBoy wrote: |
I'm not trying to make an enemy here. We're both Linux users and gamers. I'm simply suggesting that you update your FAQ with the correct information. |
Neighborlee, though he shares some of my views, does not have editing access to my boycott winex page (nobody does except for a few friends and myself, none of whom post on this forum). It is not a FAQ, the lgfaq is a faq, if that is what you mean, and I maintain that too. Though as far as I am concerned windows emulation is never Linux gaming, and as such will never really be covered on the lgfaq, my bias is there, I admit to that, but I have not met one developer who dissagrees with me, I have only heard from random people such as yourself who use winex to play bf1942 or whatever and think it's fine. I am not aiming to stop anyone from using WineX, really, I just want people to know what they are using is not native Linux gaming and can never replace native Linux gaming. It also, is most likely, not helping Linux Gaming, nor is it representing it in a good light. A winex "port" is a cop-out. It seems like many people don't know this, or don't care. I would appreciate, as the page says, that corrections are mailed to me via the address listed.
In reality, I much more enjoy working on hopefully amusing articles and gimps on td.o, than arguing about the merits (or lack thereof) of windows emulation. |
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SQLBoy
Guru
Joined: 17 Aug 2002
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: native is better. |
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| zakk wrote: |
Neighborlee, though he shares some of my views, does not have editing access to my boycott winex page (nobody does except for a few friends and myself, none of whom post on this forum). It is not a FAQ, the lgfaq is a faq, if that is what you mean, and I maintain that too. Though as far as I am concerned windows emulation is never Linux gaming, and as such will never really be covered on the lgfaq, my bias is there, I admit to that, but I have not met one developer who dissagrees with me, I have only heard from random people such as yourself who use winex to play bf1942 or whatever and think it's fine. I am not aiming to stop anyone from using WineX, really, I just want people to know what they are using is not native Linux gaming and can never replace native Linux gaming. It also, is most likely, not helping Linux Gaming, nor is it representing it in a good light. A winex "port" is a cop-out. It seems like many people don't know this, or don't care. I would appreciate, as the page says, that corrections are mailed to me via the address listed. . |
Yes..I'm sure people know when they use WineX, its not native Linux gaming. Thats sorta the point of an ~emulator isn't it? I'm glad you can't find a single developer who thinks WineX is Linux gaming, it restores some of my faith in humanity. I also never said windows emulation is Linux gaming. I am merly saying that market share, not the presense of an emulator, is killing native ports. You increase desktop market share to the point where Linux repesents a profitable venture and more and more ports will start being released in step with the Windows release. Epic and S2 have linux coders on staff which keep the Linux versions in step. Thats how ports should happen, not by 3rd party porting houses. We've already seen 2 or 3 mainstream releases ship win and linux in the same box this year which is unprecidented in Linux gaming.
Anyway, I noticed the whole WineX boycott movement is based mainly on false information, forum rumors, and speculation. Your little write up which I wrongly called a faq is so bad its not even wrong, its just bad. People are so quick to call Transgaming a pack of liars but then have no problem posting false information about them. |
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sgaap
l33t
Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 754
Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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I have played to completion:
Baldur's Gate II
Deus Ex
Homeworld Cataclysm
SOFII
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But besides BG2 (i think) these are all opengl games, every one of them runs fine with normal wine...I have problems running direct3d based games, which winex promises to deliver...
So still, what is the added value of winex when most games that do run are opengl games that run just as fine (or better) with wine...
If winex would run d3d games just as good as wine runs opengl ones, then they would have had a nice product, now its just some half-assed d3d support which lets me play only a very small fraction of my games
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In "old" Europe we already have a word for "pre-emptive strikes" mr Bush: its called "war" |
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The Mountain Man
l33t
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 643
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Transgaming does not seem at all interested in promoting native Linux games seeing as they have a vested interest in Windows emulation. |
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IvD
n00b
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 17
Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| zakk wrote: |
On the list of games on transgaming's page they list a number of games which have native ports (either from open source, or commercially). There still exist quite a few people who are entirely unaware of native ports of UT, Quake 3, et cetera, and think that windows emulation is the only way |
Just to get this misunderstanding straight: The list of games is NOT created by the Transgaming people.
The subscribers are the ones submitting new games and give it a working rating. The Transgaming people only check if the game excists and is not yet mentioned on the list.
So you can't blame the Transgaming people for adding games to the list which have linux ports available. |
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