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neighborlee
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 80
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 Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:09 pm Post subject: dont use winex! |
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attention all comrads:
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many of us have in past and some current..use winex ( wine now has MUCH better directx8 support etc.etc. so your game might well work with regular wine) to run some of our games...
well...those same linux 'dollars' you gave them for use of the product (noncvs I mean) have been betrayed with their teamup with Aspyr..on their main page it says aspyr and transgaming brings you "Spyhunter" for the PC and Mac..
I emailed them and sure enough..its NOT for linux...and there was no mention of if or when...
so gee thx transgaming but NO THANKS...i'm sure glad I never subscibed to winex now..
go have a look and judge for yourself but its a clear indication of how much they don't care for fairness....steal wine code and make it work for PC and mac...YEAH RIGHT...
cya
lee
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Halanegri
Guru
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Posts: 351
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: dont use winex! |
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| neighborlee wrote: | | wine now has MUCH better directx8 support etc.etc. so your game might well work with regular wine.... |
Are you sure this is true? |
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sgaap
l33t
Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 754
Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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who cares about winex anyway?
normal wine runs opengl games a lot better and only a few direct3d games run with winex (the only ones I got working were max payne and gta3, and the latter with servere performance loss)
cant imagine this to be better now...
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IvD
n00b
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 17
Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Wine may HAVE more support for DirectX8 games, but where does this code come from.
When transgaming started they stated, that winex will have the latest stuff, AND they give parts of there code to Wine every once in a while.
The transgamers who have subscription pay for new developments in new DirectX support. So in a later day Wine will have this support. When everybody walks away from WineX transgaming will disappear, and no new updates to directX support from them. How fast will support for new games occur after that? I doubt development and support will grow slower. |
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sgaap
l33t
Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 754
Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt transgaming gave something back, most games that run on winex run on wine also, mostly because those games are opengl.
My impression of transgaming now is a company that makes bucks because of the good opengl support the original wine already had and still doesn't deliver the thing they meant to do: good d3d emulation for modern games.
/me is going to play the call of duty demo which runs just fine with the "old" wine
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Uranus
Guru
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 438
Location: Portugal, Braga
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I use winex because of some games. I do believe they did not come through with some things they promised, but let's face it... according to the license, they are not obligated to give anything back to wine! And by boycotting transgaming, companies won't magically start making native ports!!! |
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hjlane3
Guru
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 377
Location: Wilmington, DE USA
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lurid
Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 595
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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This is silly. Personally, the way I see it, a company can make anything it wants to. So they 'teamed up' with someone who made a Windows game. Big deal. The whole point of WineX is to play.. wait for it.. wait for it.. Windows games! The whole basis of Transgaming is centered around Windows. And then they help to release a Windows game? Shocking! Come on now.
Next issue: Wine has the same code. Well hell, you can download the WineX code for free from CVS. So what is so great about WineX? CD copy protection support and InstallShield support. There are many many complaints about WineX-cvs not working properly all across this forum. And why is that? Because that code is 'given to the community' including the Wine project, mind you. All the DX support is there for anyone to use. What makes WineX what it is, and not just Wine, is that it supports InstallShield and CD copy protection. Wine doesn't (or doesn't well). Neither does WineX-cvs.
I really don't get all this anti-Transgaming hostility. So they want to make a buck for improving Wine. And? Even Codeweavers charges for Crossover and they're right up there with the groups working on and improving Wine. Geez.
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ormi
Apprentice
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 234
Location: lappeen Ranta, Finland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: dont use winex! |
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| Halanegri wrote: | | neighborlee wrote: | | wine now has MUCH better directx8 support etc.etc. so your game might well work with regular wine.... |
Are you sure this is true? |
Some games works in wine better than in winex, Ufo: aftermath for e.g. It won't even start in winex, but wine runs it "quite" well. Intro is slow and there is some problems with mouse cursor. It's playable though menus are hard to navigate  |
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The Mountain Man
l33t
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 643
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Uranus wrote: | | but let's face it... according to the license, they are not obligated to give anything back to wine! |
According to what license? Sure as hell it isn't the standard GPL, and that's the primary reason I won't support WineX. They try to pick and choose which part of the GPL they're going to abide by. |
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Roguelazer
Veteran
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1233
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with lurid on this. All you're gonna accomplish is kill WineX and get that many LESS people using Linux.
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sgaap
l33t
Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 754
Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I really don't get all this anti-Transgaming hostility. So they want to make a buck for improving Wine. And? Even Codeweavers charges for Crossover and they're right up there with the groups working on and improving Wine. Geez.
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I am not anti-transgaming, but I simply dont see the added value, most of the games they list as working on their site dont work because of their effort but because the wine code they used already supported those games/engines
The biggest problem: whats up with direct3d support, I do think that winex could be harmfull to native ports, but if I could play the few direct3d games that I want to play then I would give them my money...problem is even with recent winex-cvs builds I cant run my fav d3d games (or only at crappy speed and very unstable>gta3), so paying for something that is mostly made up from wine while the original project (wine) keeps getting better at a faster pace doesnt really sounds like a sane thing to do.
Codeweavers however has a working product, that is the major difference
| Quote: |
TransGaming's unique software portability solutions allow developers and publishers to leverage their assets by deploying these games and applications across multiple platforms - faster, cheaper, and better than anyone else.
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This seems in contradiction with their promise not to interfere with possible native ports, this is clearly not targeted at the gamer..
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professorn
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 235
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Guess I try install my games in normal WinE now |
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mmealman
Guru
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 348
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The Mountain Man wrote: | | Uranus wrote: | | but let's face it... according to the license, they are not obligated to give anything back to wine! |
According to what license? Sure as hell it isn't the standard GPL, and that's the primary reason I won't support WineX. They try to pick and choose which part of the GPL they're going to abide by. |
If I recall correctly WineX forked from Wine back when Wine was under a more liberal license. It think wine is under the LGPL today partly because of the Transgaming drama.
But to me that's simply a matter of a project picking the wrong license to start with. If you want to make sure your code stays open, GPL it.
Personally I think Linux is all the better for having wine. I couldn't run the NWN toolset under Linux without wine. The mac people don't have wine and they still can't run the toolset. They probably never will be able to.
I never used winex much, never could get it to work very well, and doubt I ever will. I prefer native ports of games under Linux and we're seeing more and more of them all the time. |
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Halanegri
Guru
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Posts: 351
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Yep, Transgaming forked Wine when it was under the X11 license, which is very similar to the BSD license(to whatever you want with it, we don't care). |
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Tisephone
n00b
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Transgaming also announced they would open-source WineX after recieving 20,000 subscriptions. Now all mention of it has mysteriously disappeared from their site. |
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DarrenM
l33t
Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 653
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Winex harms linux as a gaming platform. What would you prefer? Developers building native games and enhancing the open toolset/libraries like SDL and OpenGL for the benefit of all. Or winex with it's constant hack jobs to play the latest games in an unstable, incomplete fasion to the benefit of transgaming and Microsoft.
I'm all for wine to help people migrate to linux and run their legacy windows apps, but winex is a wasted effort in the wrong direction IMHO.
Hopefully winex will die and all those people trying to get games to work under it will turn their attention to pressuring game developers into doing native linux versions of their games which is what should be happening. |
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Roguelazer
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Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1233
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:53 am Post subject: |
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You're all too optimistic. The thought of Linux never comes NEAR most/many game dev's minds. They just make it for windows and say "done". They don't know that WineX even exists. The main thought is to make it for windows. So, these people would NEVER make a native linux game. Transgaming is giving us access to games that never, not until 10+ years when they become public domain, be ported to linux.
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senectus
Guru
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Use what you like.. I like WineX, I support Transgaming because they're usefull to us, and they DO support native ports.
Linux/Open Source is about choice.. you choose to use wine, I choose to use WineX.. whats that got to do with you?
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LordDavon
n00b
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Wine/WineX are good for Alternate OS's in the beginning. Right now they are providing a way for many users to "test the Linux waters" with less fear that their favorite game/app will not have to be sacrificed... and by promoting the "cross platform" api/libraries, they are allowing more companies a feel for the Linux consumer while not needing to program for the entire OS. Once more users/companies ease into the Linux supply-chain, they will understand the need for native porting and will put the money into doing so.
My 2 cents...
LD |
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senectus
Guru
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| LordDavon wrote: | Wine/WineX are good for Alternate OS's in the beginning. Right now they are providing a way for many users to "test the Linux waters" with less fear that their favorite game/app will not have to be sacrificed... and by promoting the "cross platform" api/libraries, they are allowing more companies a feel for the Linux consumer while not needing to program for the entire OS. Once more users/companies ease into the Linux supply-chain, they will understand the need for native porting and will put the money into doing so.
My 2 cents...
LD |
I agree 100%
nicely stated
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wim
Apprentice
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 214
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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if you desperately want to play windows games, just install windows...
i know, i hate it 2 that there isn't any good strategy game like starcraft for linux, and the games we do have all look shitty...
in the mean time i enjoy playing ported games like ut...
i mean, it took years before games for mac got on the market, but one at a time, they made it.
it'll be the same for linux i hope. |
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neighborlee
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| senectus wrote: | Use what you like.. I like WineX, I support Transgaming because they're usefull to us, and they DO support native ports.
Linux/Open Source is about choice.. you choose to use wine, I choose to use WineX.. whats that got to do with you? |
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they're useful to you when they take your/our 'money' for linux gaming advancement and make 'pc and mac' games?..this makes sense to whom??
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neighborlee
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| DarrenM wrote: | Winex harms linux as a gaming platform. What would you prefer? Developers building native games and enhancing the open toolset/libraries like SDL and OpenGL for the benefit of all. Or winex with it's constant hack jobs to play the latest games in an unstable, incomplete fasion to the benefit of transgaming and Microsoft.
I'm all for wine to help people migrate to linux and run their legacy windows apps, but winex is a wasted effort in the wrong direction IMHO.
Hopefully winex will die and all those people trying to get games to work under it will turn their attention to pressuring game developers into doing native linux versions of their games which is what should be happening. |
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AMEN BROTHER finally 'someone' has their head on 'striaght'..
the rest of you that dont..did you read this post??...does it not make sense ???
also..someone mentioned that we dont have DECENT native games..
are you NUTS??
what about:
heretic2 ( and all other loki titles) and savage( s2games.com) and quake3 and UT2003 ( UT2004 coming) and all the titles linuxgamepublishing.com is working on....and there are TONS of good games at happypenguin.org and we JUST RECENTLY got 'homeworld' .
so paaalease dont gimme this crud about no native games.... )
there are TONS of them just look around )
cu in linux games!! ( remember: native games just work better and when was the last time a 'winex' game WORKED DECENTLY or ran smoothly with ZERO problems of anykind???...
also what about the native port of wizardly 8 that we never got...if even 'one' game never got ported then I'd say its a 'problem'..
cya
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neighborlee
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| LordDavon wrote: | Wine/WineX are good for Alternate OS's in the beginning. Right now they are providing a way for many users to "test the Linux waters" with less fear that their favorite game/app will not have to be sacrificed... and by promoting the "cross platform" api/libraries, they are allowing more companies a feel for the Linux consumer while not needing to program for the entire OS. Once more users/companies ease into the Linux supply-chain, they will understand the need for native porting and will put the money into doing so.
My 2 cents...
LD |
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good for nothing you mean..when a company takes your linux advocacy dollars and spends it on pc and mac ports..that to me is contractual infringement and surely not a good place to be spending your advocacy dollars is it?
use 'native games' and just deal...we're soon going to get many more native games..its only a small matter of time )
be patient ! ;00
cu in the game (neverwinter nights/UT2003/UT/quake3/savage/heretic2/sof/might and magic/linuxgamepublishing.com ( ballistics looking mighty sweet imho) and many more i'm prob. forgetting...
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