Gentoo is broken

[pfaut]

I let my system go too long without an update. In trying to fix things I screwed it up so bad I had to start over. So although this system has been running gentoo for many years this should be considered a fresh installation.

I've been having nothing but trouble with getting this system setup. Between related packages wanting different USE flag settings an circular dependencies I've probably lost a couple of hours. I won't even mention the udev change that forced me of the first time to use an initramfs.

I used to like gentoo but this stuff is getting to be a bit too much work.

The circular dependencies have me baffled. How can package A depend on package B and package B depend on package A? This sounds like the way Microsoft writes software. There's something seriously wrong here.

Now I've come to a situation where one installed package wants apache to be installed with threads and another wants it installed without. So I decided to back up for a second and see how consistent the current settings are. I try 'emerge -auvDN system' and it tells me I have conflicting packages installed. Somehow both kmod and modutils got installed. How did that happen? I didn't ask for either of them.

I don't remember ever having so much trouble with USE flags and package conflicts but I know it was getting worse when I stopped performing updates. The fact that my system has problems after a fresh install says a lot about the current state of gentoo.

And I haven't even gotten to kde yet.

Excuse me, I just needed to vent.

[Navar]

[s_bernstein]

Been there, done that. Generally caused by taking shortcuts and changing a lot of use flags a the same time.

But it's not as bad as it seems. As mentioned before, your circulars are resolved by removing the proper use flag. I had this issue once during rebuilding my system (moved from x86 to amd64) because I copied my world file and my /etc directory. There was a circular between openssl and another package - I can't remember which. Reason was I had both use flags active. Solution was removing the use flag which created the dependency to openssl, build the packages, reactive openssl use flag and rebuild with -N.

Concerning your conflicting packages you probably have missed a message from emerge or have to run a emerge --depclean and revdep-rebuild. Missing messages is a problem I got alot during unattended installs, which is why I have installed elogviewer.

As a note for your apache problem: You should check both packages with the different dependencies if you could change a thread use flag.

[salahx]

I wouldn't say Gentoo is broken, although sometimes Portage doesn't do what you expect. Case in point: I was attempting to migrate from ffmpeg to libav. Even after uninstalling ffmpeg and installing libav, portage STILL wanted to uninstall libav and reinstall ffmpeg. revdep-rebuild was no help here. Given a choice of installing ffmpeg and uninstalling its blockers, or using what already installed, Portage seemed to prefer the first to the second. So solve it, I added ffmpeg to package.mask to get portage to do the "right" thing.

While portage might be able to be improved somewhat in this regard, there a limit that can be done: Portage can't read minds, and resolving dependences is (NP) hard . There will be situation where the only thing the user can do is "walk" the dependency tree to determine where portage is getting stuck at, then take the appropate action (either uninstalling the package, changing the USE flags, masking it, upgrading just that package by itself and retrying the merge with the newly upgrade package, and so forth). At least for most Portage packages, it doesn't have the "chain reaction" problem other ones do - just try needing an update from 1 package in Fedora Rawhide and it'll pull dozens (or more!) of others packages!

Maybe a /etc/portage/package.hint file should be added so users can help give Portage a hand when it gets confused.

[Rhiakath]

I reinstalled my entire system about two days ago, and i haven't found any nasty bumps. ( I'm addicted to gentoo reinstallations )
Well, apart from failing to install gnome 3 because of blocking packages, etc etc, but then again... i'm happy with gnome2.

The secret, i think, is doing it with time, and patience. never rushing it. Gentoo gives you the power to seriously screw everything, so you must pay attention to what you're doing..

OTOH, if you need any help, we're all here.
_________________
pc-rhiakath ~ $ emerge -s happiness
Searching..
[ Results for search key : happiness ]
[ Applications found : 0 ]

-------------------------------------------

I see dead pixels...

[go4linux]

[Hypnos]

I would say that a circular dependency is always a bug, but it's not Gentoo's fault. If there is a circular dependency in the software tree you're installing, then upstream did not design the code to be built cleanly from scratch. Instead, they assume that some of their code is already on the host environment.

Not only being the height of arrogance, such code is likely not well thought out and a nightmare to maintain and administer.

I strive to not have such software on my systems, and AFAIK I have none.
_________________
Personal overlay | Simple backup scheme

[Genone]

[Clad in Sky]

On a fresh install I usually get a circular dependency with the CUPS flag enabled. Is that your problem, too? Just remove it, install, put it back in, emerge --newuse world, done.
If it is something else, post the output of emerge here and there'll be help.
_________________
Kali Ma
Now it's autumn of the aeons
Dance with your sword
Now it's time for the harvest

[Rhiakath]

That's the beauty of gentoo.
Ask away, there's always an answer ( you just might not like it )
_________________
pc-rhiakath ~ $ emerge -s happiness
Searching..
[ Results for search key : happiness ]
[ Applications found : 0 ]

-------------------------------------------

I see dead pixels...

[go4linux]

[i92guboj]

Moved from Portage & Programming to Gentoo Chat.

Not a support question.

[TomWij]

[Hypnos]

[go4linux]

Great answer Tom, thanks. I see a couple of interesting suggestions I might use later, but I would still have a couple of comments

[i92guboj]

The circular dependencies "problem" as you call it is not that easy to "solve" as you might think.

This is just as old as the "chicken-and-egg" dilema. You can compare it with dozens of practical examples:

• you need petrol, which comes in boats or trucks, but boats and trucks require petrol
  
• you need money to eat, but you also need to eat to be able to earn some money
  
• you need money to run a business, but you need some business to earn some money
  
• you need experience to get a job, but, man, if you don't get a job you'll never have any experience
  

And you can go on forever... How to "fix" any of these depends on the concrete case. Most times there's an USE flag that can make your regular kerosene (or whatever) fuelled boat into a rowing one, so you can take your first shipment of fuel into place. After that you can recompile your boat to be as modern as any other boat, because you already have a kerosene supply in order for it to work. It's not that hard to get, really.

And, please, be serious, M$ has nothing to do with, about or against this. This happens in every OS under the sun. In all of them you need a compiler to create object binaries, yet you need object binaries to create a compiler. That's why someone invented bootstraps and cross-compiling.

Old systems are always more complicated to get into shape than 1-week old systems, that's no surprise. You usually update portage the first thing. Then sync (or webrsync) and go from there. Don't expect it to be automatic in such a case, though portage has certainly become a lot more intelligent nowadays than it used to be in the past.

If in problem, just ask for concrete cases. Just venting won't help you. You almost forgot that the big strength of Gentoo is its community, and not some silly "click next" thingie.

[TomWij]

[_______0]

[returninguser]