Running Windoze drivers under Linux

mu-sly

Using a wrapper to enable Windoze device drivers to be run under Linux:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12207

OK, so it's only for printers and network cards at the moment, but it sounds like it could be quite interesting in a few years time!

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TenPin · Guru Joined: 26 Aug 2002 Posts: 500 Location: Kansas City

Impressive but I think their efforts would have been better spent towards writing native drivers.

Some hacked together windows compatibility layer mush is no substitute for a good native driver and is not of use where reliability is needed.

mu-sly · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:39 pm Post subject:

I couldn't agree more - however, this may act as a temporary bridge, enabling people to switch to Linux who otherwise wouldn't have been able to.

Native drivers would definitely be better, but anything that takes away another reason someone might not want to use Linux has got to be good for the cause. The best thing about Open Source Software: the freedom to choose what suits you.
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Unne · l33t Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 616

In cases where writing a native driver isn't really possible or is so hard as to not be worth the effort, like with my Canon scanner whose specs Canon apparently refuses to release to the public so that a driver was never written, I'd be very happy with some kind of compatibility layer so I could at least run the thing.

shash · Apprentice Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 220 Location: India

I can actually think of one way I would have been able to use this - my old ISP had a USB modem that had no drivers except windows, and I had to reboot to just surf the web. One of the reasons for leaving them, really (the other being cost). If I had this earlier, I would have been able to at least use my drivers, until a Linux driver (which was in the pipeline, by another group) was released. It would have made life easier.

mu-sly · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:22 pm Post subject: Grrr

I never understand it when hardware companies refuse to release the specs for the interface to their hardware - it just seems silly.

Nobody can use the software drivers without owning the hardware, hence anyone who wanted to do anything with the API would need to own the hardware in the first place, which equals more hardware sales.

It just seems incredibly pointless not to release the specs so that drivers can be written for other operating systems.

Or have I missed something?

I guess you could say that they are protecting their intellectual property, but surely if they are a hardware company, they want their hardware to work on as many platforms as possible so that as many people as possible can buy it and use it.

So sure, keep the nitty-gritty stuff closed source if that's what you want to do, but at least expose the API so that developers on other platforms can write drivers for your hardware - that is, if you can't be bothered to write them yourself (fair enough, Linux isn't necessarily a big enough market share to worry about in some cases). Lots of Linux developers aren't comfortable signing NDAs, but if necessary it's still an option.

Why totally block the possibilities of someone else doing it for you - increasing your sales for free... that's just stupid.

IMO: I'm sure Microsoft has something to do with it... you know:

"Only make drivers for Wind'ohs and here's a big fat wad of cash for keeping quiet and pretending it was an internal company decision."

"PSST... you ain't seen me, right?"

Once again... this is entirely ficticious and all IMHO... of course. :wink:

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Lovechild · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:39 pm Post subject:

Closed source drivers tend to be very ugly and cause problems, even on Windows - "emulated" Closed source Windows drivers on Linux.

Oh man this could be bad, I think we have to invent a new word for the kernel hackers to yell - remember that such drivers will taint your kernel and void all tech support from the kernel hackers, it's simply impossible to debug a problem with such crap loaded.

I label this evil evil evil !

mu-sly · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:34 pm Post subject: Indeed

Indeed, but in the face of no alternatives, what are we left with?

Personally, I think we should boycott companies who don't make the details of their hardware interfaces available to people who want to write drivers for other operating systems, however, that doesn't seem likely to have much of an effect.

I still just can't get my head around why a company would prevent other people writing drivers for their hardware - can their be any reason, really?

I'm sure "money" comes into it somewhere?

"Quality control" - well, that's just bull. People know what to expect from Open Source, and if anything the OSS model has consistently shown that it produces higher quality, less error-prone software than closed source software does. (As if that wasn't obvious - when you have thousands of people who love coding reviewing your code, errors are bound to be noticed and corrected better than if you only have your employee code monkies who only care about getting paid at the end of the day.)

Retaining intellelectual propery rights? IP counts for nothing if you lose sales to people who would otherwise be buying your stuff.

Retaining control - the same. If it's that much of an issue, your company is probably big enough to afford people to write Linux drivers.

Argh... I still just don't get why any hardware company would deliberately stand in the way of someone writing Linux drivers for their equipment? (Short of plain laziness, not understanding the issue, or a bribe from M$!?)
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wishkah · Guru Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 441 Location: de

I think it's a great idea to use windows drivers with linux. Sure, it's not a final solution, only temporary, but as long as I can use my Lexmark Z45 without crashing my system I'm perfectly happy with it.
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AntiX · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 6:14 pm Post subject:

Personaly if I were a hardware manufacturer, I would be glad to give out information for programing drivers and what not, why not. Well for a guy who grew up on commodore 64, I've become used to knowing what makes what work, manuals of each and every chip inside the C64. That I'm still shocked about todays 'closed' ideas.
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Unne · l33t Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 616

I definitely won't be buying another Canon scanner, or likely any other Canon products. I unfortunately bought the thing before I decided to switch to Linux.

mu-sly · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:25 am Post subject: It's gotta be poll time!

So, it seems we have a wide array of opinions on this, ranging from "great idea" to "pure evil" - shall we set up a poll on this? I propose the following...

Running windows hardware drivers in Linux through a software wrapper:

a) A good idea that will help people use their hardware under Linux.
b) Pure evil to have closed source binaries running under Linux.
c) Not fussed either way - it's all about having individual choice.

Anyone want to suggest any other possible answers before I fire up the poll?
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pranyi · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:45 pm Post subject:

d) I don't like it, since it would lower the motivation of the hardware manufacturers to disclose information about the internals of the products or to develop more efficient native drivers for Linux.

mu-sly · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:39 pm Post subject: Good point

Whoa, good point pranyi!

That's a major downside that I hadn't thought of - kinda seems like it's an evil idea after all.

I dunno, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle - I think it would be OK as an interim solution for people who have no other options, but ultimately we need native drivers for our hardware, and it's absolutely insane that companies don't release the specs of their devices if they aren't going to write drivers themselves.

Hmm... maybe we don't need a poll - this is more interesting as a discussion anyway.
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mu-sly · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:54 pm Post subject: The poll is up!!!

Ahh, what the heck - call me indecisive if you will, but I started the poll after all, since I think this is interesting.

Go here to air your views.

(Moderators - sorry for the pseudo-duplicate threads, but AFAIK there's no way to add a poll to a thread after it's been started?)
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Death Valley Pete · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:55 pm Post subject:

As I said on the thread I started, working kludgy beat the hell out of imaginary free (TM) drivers. (BTW, these drivers do work as advertised - I got them going on my laptop yesterday.)

As far as manufacturer motivation goes, it seems to me that Broadcom was pretty uninspired before this, no matter how many people signed the online petition.

My wireless card is integrated with my laptop. If I had planned on running Linux on it when I got it, then I would have done my homework and wouldn't have gotten integrated wireless, but now that I have, I'm far too broke to buy a PCMCIA wireless card just to work with Linux. Until yesterday afternoon, that made my only option rebooting into Windows. I'd love to be fanatically ideological, but I can't afford to be (and besides, then I'd be running Debian. :wink:

)

Although, now that I've gotten my temper up, I think it's time for me to write a letter to Broadcom.

And by the way:

e) Native drivers would be infinitely better, but these are better than none.
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allan_q · n00b Joined: 01 Jan 2003 Posts: 43

There was an article in Linux Journal about these chips.

Panther_7 · n00b Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posts: 46 Location: FL

You know one reason that manufactures might not release details about their hardware and make closed source drivers is because they might not want their competitors getting "secrets." But yeah I do agree with TenPin that native drivers would be more stable.

Windows wrapper or native drivers, as long as the hardware works, I could care less.

noff · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:26 am Post subject:

I think these fill a role.

I am getting a new laptop from work which I am going to put Linux on. We only buy Dells and they come with the Broadcom chip that is supported. With out this I was going to have to use a PC Card which is a hassle. Now I can use these drivers. I don't see a problem with them since I have no real choice in the matter. They help me get my work done and since I didn't buy the laptop I have no choice.
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