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Jeedo
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 202
Location: Akureyri, Iceland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:20 pm    Post subject: "You wish to asign copyright to Gentoo Technologies, In Reply with quote

When i fired up "mkebuild" today it gave me that message among others. Asking about it in #Gentoo gave me the answeres from a cauple of devs that if you submit code to Gentoo Tech, Inc. you effectively assign copyright over to Gentoo, apperently this is for my and others own protection (like for example if someone would use code from gentoo in a none-gpl project Gentoo could sue, which is couldnt if it didnt have the copyright to that code.)

Quote:

<Jeedo> tberman : cant i contribute to gentoo without assigning over copyright?
<Jeedo> GNU for example gives you a choice on that
<tberman> Jeedo: i believe right now you have to, ask on gentoo-dev
<SwifT> Jeedo: when you have to assign copyright to gentoo, it's that text you'll have to "sign", so we won't sneaky take over your copyright :)
<Jeedo> so it is that kind of copyright assignment,
<Jeedo> where can i see the text of that assignment
<SwifT> Jeedo: it will be made public shortly;
<Jeedo> so, basically everyone is now submitting code under something that isnt even public yet?
<SwifT> Jeedo: currently there is no copyright assignment, or not legally 100% safe - the new text is created by a lawyer


I cant say that this doesnt worry me, handing over copyright to a centeral authority when there is no agreement in place on how to handle it (not a public one at least) doesnt strike me as wholly professional. However this is not a flame, i have tried not to take the quotes above out of context though i did delete some comments that had nothing to do with the discaussion i'm just looking for info on this. Do we think this "Protection" in case of copyright infringement is worth this copyright assignment? Is there some official policy on this and if so where can i read about it?
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aja
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Joined: 26 Aug 2002
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Location: Edmonton, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GPL (and nearly all similar Open Source licenses) cannot be enforced by anyone but the copyright-holder. Consequently, it is quite reasonable to require that a large project centralize copyright assignment.

I don't think it is particularly odd that they haven't gotten around to creating some sort of formal agreement - this form of copyright assignment is not a quid-pro-quo contract where gentoo developers are assigning proprietary code in return for some sort of consideration - the code in question is GPL'd, so the developers are really only turning over responsibility and authority for enforcing the GPL to Gentoo.
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aethyr
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Joined: 06 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an ebuild.

Seriously, what are you going to do with a bash script that installs a piece of software, of which 10000 some scripts already exist, that is even worth copyrighting?

I mean if you rewrote portage that's one thing, but creating an ebuild, I fail to see how that's worth worrying about.
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trinitrotoluene
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Joined: 19 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it is the same way for software submitted to the FSF and many others.
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idl
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Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 1728
Location: Nottingham, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When commiting user created ebuilds, we check for their own copyright (some do add them) and inform them the ebuild cannot be submited if they own the copyright.

Imagine the mess if users started claiming copyright on their X number of ebuilds in portage. As its often said (although not written) writing ebuilds and posting them on bugzilla is considered a contribution to the project. At that point owner ship is transfered to Gentoo and maintainership to the developer.
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Pythonhead
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002
Posts: 1801
Location: Redondo Beach, Republic of Calif.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daniel Robbins actually approved people using their own copyright messages about a month ago.

From the developer mailing list:
Quote:
> > Would it not be possible for copyright to be assigned to Gentoo and the
> > author of the ebuild?
>
> That's what we needed information from Daniel's lawyer about.

I've been trying to get people to keep their names in the copyright line for
over a year, but no one has really started doing it. To my knowledge, it is
better to have multiple official copyright holders for GPL code than just a
single copyright holder. I would like all our ebuilds to have a copyright
like this:

# Copyright 2003 Gentoo Technologies, Joe User, and others (see cvs
# changelog.) Distributed under the GPL version 2.

I don't see why this would be a problem for anyone, and makes a lot more
sense than what we are doing now.

What we are doing now began way back when we figured out that slapping a
"Copyright 2000 Gentoo Technologies, Inc." allowed us to comply with the GPL
and get back to coding. That's all there is to our current "policy," folks.
I am very much hoping that people will start using shared copyrights soon.
I think it's very bad to continue using the single "Copyright Gentoo" one,
and hope that some developers will start doing this. This is one trend that
I can't start, since all the work I do is under the Gentoo Technologies,
Inc. name. While I know that I'm not going to rip Gentoo off, the primary
benefit to me is that it quells those who enjoy being paranoid about my
intentions.

The rules should be:

ebuilds should be copyright Gentoo Technologies, Inc. *and* the original
author/submitter, with a note for all additional cvs committers. What this
does is prevent Gentoo or the original committer or later contributors from
changing the license away from the GPL 2 unless all copyright holders agree.
This basically makes it practically impossible for code to be hijacked from
our tree, or from our users (by me presumably, after going on some kind of
evil kick.) This seems near-ideal. It would be helpful if a GPL and
copyright expert could review and comment.

> > I believe that this has been discussed previously on this list (when I get
> > a chance I'll search my archive) and that there was an agreement reached
> > between Gentoo and an educational institution on this very matter.
>
> Was that agreement actually reached? I have been away from development
> and not very involved for a couple weeks.

I need to contact them; haven't had time to follow up after LWE. After
thinking a bit about this, it's probably best that I ask Richard Stallman
what he recommends since he is likely to be much more versed in the ins and
outs of this kind of thing than the typical IP lawyer who is not very
familiar with the GPL. I'll cc this email to Richard and see what he says.

Richard, your input would certainly be welcome, and I can forward all
replies you send me to the gentoo-dev list (gentoo-dev is subscriber post
only.)

Best Regards,



If you search the developer malining list for the subject "Why should copyright assignment be a requirement?" you'll find a long discussion.

What you could do is either not submit your ebuild until the tools are fixed, or submit it and ask them to assign copyright to you when the tools are fixed.
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avenj
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 495
Location: New Hampshire

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Daniel said it was okay before learning that it was actually very bad for us, as I and others had originally pointed out.

Instead, there's a document in progress that is basically a contract stating "you assign copyright to us, and in return we promise we'll never relicense it under anything but the GPL"

Ebuilds are very marginally copyrightable to begin with; if you really think we're going to somehow subvert your contribution, don't contribute it.
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Jeedo
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 202
Location: Akureyri, Iceland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for some great answers guys. I wasnt agains this at all really, i was just sceptic and wanted to know why it was being done thats all.

Anyway thanks for clearing that up.[/list]
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hbmartin
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Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Posts: 386
Location: Home is where the boxen are

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested to see what RMS replied to Daniel.

Harold
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