Why is Gentoo not switching to systemd?

owemeacent · n00b Joined: 06 Apr 2014 Posts: 32

I'm not a fan of systemd for Linux, or any monolothic kernel for that matter, but I see almost ALL distro's switching to it; Debian, Red Hat, Fedora, Linux Mint, Arch, openSUSE, etc. Gentoo is also a major linux distro. Why isn't it switiching to systemd as default?

HungGarTiger · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:25 am Post subject:

Troll bait..

szatox · Advocate Joined: 27 Aug 2013 Posts: 3435

there were like 4 topics like that 2 months ago, has anything changed enough to start it all over again? If, if you like digging corpses up, why won't you simply look for this slightly older pool?

owemeacent · n00b Joined: 06 Apr 2014 Posts: 32

Oh, sorry

Yamakuzure · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:18 am Post subject:

Wrong question.

The reason is simple: There is no such thing as a one and only init system in gentoo. The distributions you listed must make a decision. But in gentoo, there is a default (openrc) and the decision to use something else can be made by the user. Gentoo is mainly a set of tools with which you yourself make your own distribution. So if you, for yourself and your machine(s), make the decision to switch to systemd, you can do that.

However, openrc is working well and has for ages. And apart from that it is a lot smaller and simpler than a systemd bulk install. So staying with openrc as a sane default makes perfect sense.
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gerard27 · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:29 am Post subject:

Yamakuzure ++
Gerard.
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depontius · Advocate Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 3522

I will (with some effort) sympathize with those people who wish to use systemd under Gentoo.
However...

Is it harder to take a default OpenRC installation and switch it to systemd?
Or...
Is it harder to take a default systemd installation and switch it to OpenRC?

I strongly suspect that the former is easier, and based on history if the latter isn't harder it will be in the not-too-distant future. Some of us don't want systemd. We don't force you to use OpenRC, except to get installed. Then you can switch. Please quit trying to force systemd down our throats. If I felt that the systemd -> OpenRC switch were easy and would remain easy I might not feel so strongly, and be more willing to make the switch myself. But the forces behind systemd seem so bent on making it the One True Init System that I believe that at some point it will take reinstallation from scratch to remove systemd.
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NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject:

Gentoo is about choice. OpenRC is a good place to start for the install.
Users are free to switch during the course of the install.
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asturm · Developer Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 9280

depontius · Advocate Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 3522

Logicien · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject:

If you use Bluez 5 and want Bluetooth audio, you need Pulseaudio who run eventually better with Systemd. It's the only case I see who make Systemd mandatory.

I test Funtoo again recently. Some users where happy to be able to use Gnome 3 without Systemd. The problem come when Systemd is a dependancy or you want to install it explicitly. There's a loop between Systemd and Udev. A variant of the problem exist with Gentoo.

So, with what I experienced, -pulseaudio -systemd global USE flags seem's to be a less pain.
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mackal · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 04 Aug 2011 Posts: 92

Yamakuzure · Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:29 am Post subject:

Isn't it still the case that Gnome 3 only needs logind to be available for gdm to work? I mean if this hasn't changed, than all that is mandatory is systemd to be installed, not necessarily being used to start the system. How much fun it is to start a full systemd session just to be able to have gdb using logind as a consolekit replacement seems clear to me. But at the end of the day Gnome 3 doesn't really depend on systemd at all.

(Disclaimer: This information is scratched off of the back of my head digging through ages old memories that can be seriously wrong.

)
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Edited 220,176 times by Yamakuzure

Shamus397 · Apprentice Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 218 Location: Ur-th

I would ask the Funtoo guys who removed the SystemD dependency from Gnome 3. And they did it *without losing any functionality*.

I personally do not care about Gnome and its contortions, but I think it's great news that someone has shown the 'Gnome 3 is tightly coupled to and absolutely requires SystemD' meme to be the lie that it is.

Fitzcarraldo

creaker · l33t Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 651

depontius · Advocate Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 3522

John R. Graham

mackal · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 04 Aug 2011 Posts: 92

depontius · Advocate Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 3522

mackal · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 04 Aug 2011 Posts: 92

depontius · Advocate Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 3522

Can't resist, didn't even try, seems timely: Systemd 216 Piles On More Features, Aims For New User-Space VT - http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTc2Nzk

Interestingly, one of the comments says:

eyoung100 · Veteran Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 1428

I ran OpenRC as my init system for ~9 years and in all that time, I only had one fubar which required a reinstall. Last year, I switched to systemd, as the other major distros are going that direction, and I chose to follow the trend in order to help support others. Tech Support isn't easy when having to switch between init systems when helping users in this forum and over on StackExchange I'll admit the switchover wasn't as painless as I would have liked. As others here have said, it is about choice, and for that matter now that it's done, I can easily switch back if I ever want to by removing one line from my Grub 2 configs. While systemd is geared toward newer users, once accustomed to it, a power user can do just as much.
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krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

saellaven · l33t Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 654

Back to the usual "I worship systemd and you all should too" posts... Rinse and repeat.

and some people wonder why we get frustrated and sick of saying "you can use whatever you want, quit trying to force us to use it too."

Waiting for the required link to freedesktop.org explaining how all of us just don't understand how super awesome and needed systemd is... so we can rehash that all over again and jump through the hoops until we get tired of fighting to keep their crap off our system.

I eagerly await yet another thread lock... see everyone in the new new thread in 2 weeks?